Bone vs. Elephant Ivory Saddle

[L20A]

Several years ago, when I had a new saddle made for one of my guitars, I was asked if I wanted ivory or bone.
I said that I thought that ivory was illegal and the luthier said that they had some left over stock from way back when.
Nobody wanted to use it any more due to politics.
I had them put the ivory saddle in my guitar and it sounded very nice.
I later started making my own saddles and replaced it with a bone saddle that I compensated. Now I have about 12 saddles of various materials in a bundle and to tell you the truth, I don't know which piece is the ivory one.

Sorry, but I just don't get all the hype about legal ivory.
I'll stick with bone though, because it sounds good, it's cheep and is easy to obtain.

[Scott1969]

I have an OM-1 and I use Martin M540's with the Tusq saddle and love the rich woody sound. I tried a bone saddle on a Martin once and it was too shrill for my taste and it lost the classic dark Martin tone. Stick with the Tusq saddle and try M540 strings.

[Petespix]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

I'm not a big fan of ivory in musical instruments, either. Living in Alaska as I do, what I've seen is that the surge of interest in legal fossilized ivory has also had the side effect of creating greater interest in illegal "white" ivory, as well. As a result, there's been an increase in illegal poaching of walrus, with the animals being killed strictly for their tusks and the meat left to rot.

However we might want to disassociate our musical instruments from developments out in the "real world," when you choose to equip a guitar with ivory you're making a decision that has its effect on living creatures, many of which are increasingly endangered. It's not a values-neutral decision like choosing to use bone from a cow or a synthetic material like Tusq.


Wade Hampton Miller

Very well said, thank you.

Peter

[JimInCairns]

Ivory always looks best on an elephant.



Took that in Rhodesia back in '67.

[Misty44]

Sorry, but I just don't get all the hype about legal ivory.

It's not hyperbole at all.

The problem centers on the fact that there is no definitive way to tell if "legal" ivory is or isn't really legal, and no certain way to absolutely document if the supply is pre-1989 CITES or not. For centuries the ivory trade has been fueled by corruption, and illegal ivory can still filter through legal CITES channels.

Either way (legal or not), if you purchase EI you might be unwittingly helping to create and drive an "illegal" market for it, and in the final analysis this can only be bad for the animals.

These are ethical decisions we must make, and where we draw the lines are of course personal choices - Elephant ivory? Brazilian rosewood? Tortoise picks?

Ivory always looks best on an elephant.

+1 - btw, great picture

[cellocolin]

Originally Posted by JimInCairns

Ivory always looks best on an elephant.

A great picture, indeed! Bone saddles are good enough for me.

I am also too uncomfortable with any sort of new ivory (even walrus) to consider it seriously. The market is indeed corrupt and murky, and I want nothing to do with it.

I have been fortunate enough to spend a good deal of time with elephants in Asia. They are such wonderful animals... let them keep their ivory.

[macfawlty]

We could change the name of this forum to the "Environmental Guitar Forum".

People make valid points about materials. There's been a real big stink on the Madagascar Rosewood on the UMGF and recent articles in National Geographic and other periodicals.

That aside, I have used the Colosi Elephant Ivory saddle in a couple guitars. I can't say I noticed much of a distinction between that ivory and bone. The saddle replacement itself makes a big difference, but I put in the ivory because I just wanted to be sure I used the warmest sounding material I could. It just didn't warm up the custom Taylor 815 enough and I traded it for my current coco cedar 815. I'm not really much of a champion for EIR. To me, EIR often sounds too brittle and bright and lacks midrange. I couldn't fix that with the elephant ivory. One thing for sure, I hate tusq saddles.

[deja]

Good points, macfawlty, because the reasons why we should or should not do something OUGHT to be based entirely upon whether they fit OUR guitar playing needs and preferences. If that means the sacrifice of an elephant or two, a half-dozen walruses here or there, or an occasional one-horned bison, well that's the price to pay for my freedom to chose what I deem necessary to improve the tonal qualities of my guitars by whatever measure I'm told is best. Surely it's no coincidence that the rarest materials are the best for tone. Why else would they cost so much?

Regardless, let's get our priorities straight! Since when has an elephant, walrus or some stupid bison considered my guitar playing needs? I stand firm and refuse to let the "plight" of elephants, walruses, bison or any other creature dictate my choices to improve tonal quality. Whatever it takes to get that perfect tone...

[epaul]

Excellent post, Deja.

I've tried the walrus and elephant saddles, but they didn't really turn my crank, kind of mushy and uneven. But that one-horned bison stuff sounds interesting. I thought they were extinct. Good to know there is still a few of those guys still around, especially if they make good saddles.

Everything has a purpose.

[TaylorKoaFan]

Not exactly sure how this turned into an "ethics discussion". If the material is legal, let's not preach. I have given my own money towards philanthropic work in Africa to stop illegal poaching of elephants as that practice is despicable, but I am certainly not opposed to proper use of legal materials - be it bone or ivory.

Regarding the original question, I agree with Tim McKnight. Ivory tends to impart a slightly warmer tone to the guitar with bone producing a bit more even sound...

[kazzelectro]

To the previous post... Took a look at your Bourgeious OM pics..very nice! What is the bridge all about? Have never seen one in white like that...could it be elephant ivory?

[OPATRIOT]

Wow Hot Topic ... I suppose a person could carry it over too Rare and endangered trees , Brazilian etc. or even materials for guitar finish's .. How about the morality of Tobacco , Alcohol , Big fat greasy cheeseburgers ? ..... I don't think a person should be humiliated or brow beat if it is legal and they have the freedom and liberty of choice .. I could'nt give my friend a conscience if I tried ... But I can respect and love them even if I disagree .... I know I probably just painted a target on myself ... But some ivory is legal for now ...

[TaylorKoaFan]

Originally Posted by kazzelectro

To the previous post... Took a look at your Bourgeious OM pics..very nice! What is the bridge all about? Have never seen one in white like that...could it be elephant ivory?

No, it is not elephant ivory. It is fossilized ivory. As I said, this coming from a guy who financially supports ending illegal harvesting.

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by TaylorKoaFan

Not exactly sure how this turned into an "ethics discussion". If the material is legal, let's not preach.

I disagree...just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right or ethical. Some folks need to understand the impact of their legal actions on others....and often just providing facts can help those who are ignorant on a subject.

[macfawlty]

Careful, I've gotten scolded when my humor was misinterpreted.

I think this forum IS an appropriate place to bring up these issues related to wood and ivory and other resources. I'm just not sure who here can answer these questions definitively. In the case of Madagascar Rosewood, I know that there has been much documentation recently. I don't doubt that there is still illegal trade in elephant ivory, but it's not going to guitar saddles, it's going to China most likely, just like the Mad Rose.