What kind of microphone?

[jjbigfly]

I would like to try to play AND sing thru a single Mic. I have been doing this recently with a Sure SM58 and the Beta version also. While I have to set the input gain way up, I think I like the sound better than amplifying the acoustic guitar via the built in PU and the voice thru a mic. I would like to try using a single mic rather than using a mic for the guitar and a another for voice.
Given that I could be weird, am I wasting my time? Or can anyone suggest a mic that will do what I want.
Thanks

[pieterh]

A dynamic mic like the 58 is not the ideal solution for what you are after - dynamic mics usually like the source (voice or instrument) to be quite near the mic in order for it to relay the sound as smoothly as possible. Gaining up in order to cover two sources is going to leave it susceptible to noise and feedback.

Many musicians and groups do use the single mic concept but it these cases it is usually a fairly (or very) expensive large diaphragm condenser mic. Even here a degree of discipline and practice is called for to get the right balance between instrument and voice but the results can be very good. I wouldn't recommend it for loud spaces and it is virtually impossible to have stage monitors as the condenser needs to have quite high gain here too in order to pick up both guitar and voice. Anything in a monitor is also gong to get picked up.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

…Given that I could be weird, am I wasting my time? Or can anyone suggest a mic that will do what I want.
Thanks

Hi jjbf…

Given that Milk Can Kids and Gillian Welch use mics on stage (and I've seen the Milk Can guys use 1 mic and then other times 4 mics) you are not weird.

The issue is having a stage and PA setup to accommodate this type of sound amplification. It requires good mics (think lots-o-bucks) and the mains of the PA need to be way out in front of you (like 15 feet or more).

It creates a cool-vibe when done right, and might be worth exploring.

A large diaphragm condenser mic would be as little as $100 or cost $1500 and up. I've seen a couple situations in the same church setting where the $100 mic was used before a wedding for a pair of singers one of whom was playing the guitar and it was OK. Their sanctuary stage was setup so there was a good distance between the singers and the main speakers, and there were no monitors in play.

Being a wedding, the audience were polite and quiet. Would not have worked for the wedding dance afterwards though.

[Br1ck]

There are many large diaphragm condenser mics out there, but you need phantom power. I use a Rode NT2 in my studio quite a lot, but haven't ventured out with it. Not the thing to do in a bar. Look for switchable pickup patterns. An omni works great in a small acoustically good room for recording.
If you play where an audience is actually quiet and attentive, it could work nicely.

I like the NPR tiny desk concerts, where one mic seems to work really well.

[Monk of Funk]

I find it's a lot more difficult to get that right. You need to have good mic placement, and you don't have much control in post processing. Everything you do has to be done to the voice, and also the guitar. So, for me, you're better off recording them separately.

If you have an SM58 and a beta, I would use both of those. If you don't have enough inputs, you'll need an interface, which you would need anyway with a condenser mic, to get phantom power, unless you got a USB one, but I've heard those aren't as good. They might suffice you, but I think you're better off getting an interface.

With two inputs on your interface, you could have both mics going, or if you get one with more, you could have two mics, plus your pickup, and you can mix them and EQ them separately to get a blend that gives you a sound you like.

I prefer a mic to a pickup as well, for sure, but I like to mix some pickup in there a little also sometimes.

[Silly Moustache]

I've had great results from a simple Rode Nt1.

Did the sound once for Steve James - he liked my mic, then bought one himself.

The best traditional bluegrass band in the UK recommend the Audio Technica 4033.

See this: http://www.newessexbluegrass.homecall.co.uk/onemike.htm

[lweb10]

A fair number of acoustic and Americana artists have been using mics from Ear Trumpet Labs. Their website has a lot of info about the pickup patterns and uses of their various models and many are designed for applications like yours. Not cheap (also true of many large condenser mics) but could be just what you want.

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

I would like to try to play AND sing thru a single Mic. I have been doing this recently with a Sure SM58 and the Beta version also. While I have to set the input gain way up, I think I like the sound better than amplifying the acoustic guitar via the built in PU and the voice thru a mic. I would like to try using a single mic rather than using a mic for the guitar and a another for voice.
Given that I could be weird, am I wasting my time? Or can anyone suggest a mic that will do what I want.
Thanks

I do it all the time.(well,,,, summa the time )

One-mic technique relies on careful mic placement, and, knowing how to "work" a mic. For me, it works best when I play seated,,,, preferably on a stool with a foot-rest. The guitar rests on my elevated knee, and the sound-hole of the guitar is roughly 1 foot away from my mouth. As I sing, I can lean into,,, or away from, the mic,,, and as I play, I can lean or rotate the guitar forward, backward, sideways, etc.

If you're finding you have to "crank the gain", it's probably a good indication that you're not close enough to the mic. Your "sound" will probably be "thin" with this scenario, plus, you're inviting possible feedback issues, as well as picking up background noise and room reflections.

I'm not fussy about which mic I use, unless the situation demands it. I generally use a super-cardioid mic, primarily for reducing the risk of feedback. As far as the mic's sound is concerned, a lot will depend on your mixers' channel EQ,,,, the quality of your sound-system, and your ability to "dial-it-in"(EQ) to the venue you're playing, including setting FX saturation levels.

The mics I personally prefer (most of the time), are the EV ND/767a and the Sennheiser e945. The EV is a much more sensitive mic, with great detail/ clarity, and superb feedback-resistance.(tight polar pattern). The Sennheiser on the other hand, is a much 'warmer" mic,,,.. That said,,, an SM58 is much more forgiving of "mic technique", as long as you're willing to live with the trade-offs.

[jjbigfly]

I have taken the plunge with a condenser mic. I found a AKG P220 like new in my local area. It was priced low enough that if I do not care for it at all I will resell it. And If I think the condenser mic will work I will go ahead and get a nice one (if needed that is).
And....thanks for the responses so far. It is so difficult (for me anyway) to interpret internet reviews of many products. This place is such a valuable resource.
John

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

I have taken the plunge with a condenser mic. I found a AKG P220 like new in my local area. It was priced low enough that if I do not care for it at all I will resell it. And If I think the condenser mic will work I will go ahead and get a nice one (if needed that is).
And....thanks for the responses so far. It is so difficult (for me anyway) to interpret internet reviews of many products. This place is such a valuable resource.
John

Hi John

Please let us know how it goes…

[Gypsyblue]

Use a mic like Del McCoury and the boys are using here. Del's a master at the single microphone approach.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by jjbigfly

I have taken the plunge with a condenser mic. I found a AKG P220 like new in my local area. It was priced low enough that if I do not care for it at all I will resell it. And If I think the condenser mic will work I will go ahead and get a nice one (if needed that is).
And....thanks for the responses so far. It is so difficult (for me anyway) to interpret internet reviews of many products. This place is such a valuable resource.
John

Looks good - and discontinued - so a good time to buy economically.

I position my Rode Nt1 abut two/three feet from mouth and soudhole, and don't use a monitor.

It's worked well in open air gigs and in small or medium venues.

When micing up a trio (double bass, guitar/vox and mando/dobro - I tend to put an sm58 for the bass vox, and/or mando/reso player's vox, a small condenser mic for mando/reso, and we DI the bass.

I always try to work without monitors.

[Long Jon]

I like this single mic sound. It is talented forum member "flagstaffcharli" , aka Chuck Cheeseman. It's Studio tho', don't think it would work in a bar !

[jseth]

A local bluegrass/old time music duo here in town (R'evelyn) uses the CAB mic, the smaller one that looks like one of the large-diaphragm condensers of studio recording, and it sounds very nice... don't know how cheap they are, but, in the right setting they can be very effective.

I'd say the room needs to be a decent size with a fairly quiet audience, and you have to be very mindful when setting up your amp/PA system to accommodate the "one mic" technique...

Using a dynamic cardiod mic would not be the best way to go on this...

[jjbigfly]

Set up the AKG P220 mic with my PA system (Bose L-1). Fiddled with the mic placement and a little bit of EQ. I thought It sounded pretty good and was worth the investment. Put in a couple of hours playing time and then went to the local music store and bought a Rode NT1a package. I like the AKG P220 but the Rode was everything I had hoped I would hear in changing to a different mic. I find it to be like playing a good quality guitar for the first time, as in I am hearing things I was unaware of before. In addition (as a solo) it seems easy to lean in to the mic and/or tilt the guitar body slightly for effects. This is only at home, for what that is worth. While I was the only one around, any way you look at it the listener response was 100% :-)
I assume it will sound a bit better after I figure out the settings (eq and related) but I like my voice thru this mic, but the guitar is, well, amazing. I have used a mic for guitar before with a few different dynamic mic's that was pleasing, but this is a different animal.

As an aside, the young lady that waited on me made sure that I understood that this mic was for recording only and would not work in a live setting. Mentioned it twice to make sure. It might be my age, but I was able to smile and thank her for the information.

Thanks to everyone so far...