Making a Custom order... general advice pls

[Step]

I've made an appointment to see a top draw Luthier in the next month to finalise a custom order. I've got an idea about the model and the tonewoods - Engelman/EI Rosewood to start discussion from and I know what I want in terms of nut width...

Starting to get an appreciation of jus how much can be customised...so...

For those of you who have placed custom orders before what's your general advice... what did you do or didn't do that you you'd do next time.

[iim7V7IM7]

Originally Posted by Step

I've made an appointment to see a top draw Luthier in the next month to finalise a custom order. I've got an idea about the model and the tonewoods - Engelman/EI Rosewood to start discussion from and I know what I want in terms of nut width...

Starting to get an appreciation of jus how much can be customised...so...

For those of you who have placed custom orders before what's your general advice... what did you do or didn't do that you you'd do next time.

If you are seeing your luthier bring your current instruments. Let them see you play to get a sense of your style of play and strength of attack. Perhaps they have one of their instruments in their shop that you can play as well. Discuss with them what you like and dislike sonically, ergonomically, aesthetically.

The most difficult task for a luthier is to be sure that they truly understand your perceptions and a common understanding of what YOU mean. Based on this foundational common understanding of your goals for the instrument, your luthier should guide you through their recommendations on all options. You also can discuss their preferred communication method how the project ensues.

Internet forums like this are GREAT, but armchair lutherie is no substitute for what I recommended. Commissioning a custom instrument is inherently a leap of faith in your luthier. Embrace the concept and trust your luthier to steer you in the right direction.

Good Luck...

[mercy]

Ive had several built and the most important thing is to like what the luthier does. If you are not able to play his/her instruments list every detail that can be. You mentioned nut width but you should talk about neck shape, transitioning the the edges of the fingerboard, rolling the fingerboard or not,type of heel, transition from back of neck to back of headstock, pieces of mahogany for the neck, if its mahogany, it goes on and on. If its a top tier builder you dont have to worry about all the details but if theres something he does that you would prefer be different voice it.

[SoCalSurf]

I recently went through the same process. For me, the most important step was receiving a build sheet with all spec options available for every aspect of the guitar, long before I met with the luthier. I spent as much time as I needed to research every aspect, write down a list of questions I had, and go in prepared to discuss everything with the luthier. I was also willing to take his advice on everything.

I actually visualized how the guitar would look, feel, and sound with different options.

This step allowed me to spend the time I needed to make sure every decision I made was thought through carefully, allowing little room for regret later.

Best of luck. It's a bit stressful but also a very exciting process. Enjoy.

[TuckerRE]

The first thing I would say is ENJOY THE PROCESS. Savor it all. Take notes keep your sketches, take pictures... this is a wonderful journey and not just a destination.

It’s a collaboration...so listen as much as you talk. Your luthier will enjoy it all as much as you, but he/she IS smarter in this dance, but your joy and satisfaction is paramount! So if and as your two souls come together for this dance, it can be a mighty special and memorable thing.

It isn’t just about neck with. Tho if it isn’t 1-7/8” it’s just plain wrong! It’s about the special woods, the intricate bindings and purfling and pearl and every little detail... but above all else, in my book, it is about the sound! But it all should be, at the end of the day, and at every step along the way: SAVORED!!

[TomB'sox]

You have gotten great advise, I especially like Mr. Tucker's more emotional advise.

I say don't worry about everything before you go. You have made the toughest decision already, deciding on a luthier that you like. Once that is done, in my mind you have accomplished 90% of this thing because I assume that means you like his or her guitars. Done. The rest is just fun especially if you can do an in house visit as you are going to do. Go with an open mind. They will (or at least should) have some of their guitars to play. Talk about the different models, what you like in sound, what type of music you play, next thing you know, you have a model and general plan picked out and started. They will guide you through the important choices. From that point it is all gravy, fun stuff, the great stuff like picking woods, tapping tops, learning what the luthier can do to achieve the sonic goals, embellishments if any etc.

Do not stress, trust them to get it done for you. IF you do not have that trust, you do not have the correct luthier for you. Stop now, move on. If you do trust them, don't micromanage, that is what brings on the stress. Every build I have had done has surpassed my expectations upon delivery. I know that is not the case for everyone, but it has been for me. The first build I was very much a part of the design and the details and that was fun, but as I go along, I find it just as fun now to lay out a general plan and to sit back and watch these artists implement the plan in ways that I could not even imagine!

My two cents.

[Step]

Originally Posted by mercy

You mentioned nut width but you should talk about neck shape, transitioning the the edges of the fingerboard, rolling the fingerboard or not,type of heel, transition from back of neck to back of headstock, pieces of mahogany for the neck, if its mahogany, it goes on and on.

Forgive a (possibly) stupid question what is "Rolling the fingerboard"...??

I know what you mean... The luthier is top draw so part of the experience is getting something that they consider a great guitar (and I'm sure I'd be more than happy with their standard series!)

[Step]

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

If you do trust them, don't micromanage, that is what brings on the stress.

This is a great point, I don't want to customise it to such an extent that it loses the identity of the luther - which is why I chose him.

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

Every build I have had done has surpassed my expectations upon delivery.

This makes me feel so excited...shame about the 2 year wait...what a GAS build up

[Step]

Great advice guys many thanks.... I'm not stressed about the process... Maybe a little daunted... but very excited!!

I'm not even sure I've noticed purfling before nevermind formed an opinion as to what purfling I like the best

[TomB'sox]

[/QUOTE]This makes me feel so excited...shame about the 2 year wait...what a GAS build up [/QUOTE]

For sure, you could have quite a case of indigestion in that amount of time.

It has happened to me and quite a few others that I know, but sometimes your build spot moves up if someone has to cancel and push things back...also if you are flexible in your build time, ie. financially ready to go, let them know that as other people in line may not be so if someone cancels, instead of changing the order of everyone in line, ie. moving everyone up, it is easier to plug one person in that new spot and keep everyone else the same if that makes sense. So it is worth letting them know that just in case. I know folks who have commissioned a guitar and purposely do not want it started for a couple of years so they can set aside the money for it.

[Guitars44me]

All good advice above!

Let me add, if you are picky about neck shape, like me, take or send the builder your fave neck axe to copy. I sent John kinnaird one of his own necks to copy, as he does everything differently on each guitar!!!

Consider the scale length! Small old hands like short scale. A great builder can somewhat compensate for scale with other build tweaks.

I like a short (under 25") scale AND I TUNE DOWN. So John K has adjusted other tonal factors like bracing and voicing to compensate. For which I am most grateful, especially during long solo gigs!

Let your builder know your preferred tunings and have him tap and voice for them.

AND CONSIDER A SOUND PORT AND BEVELS! I would not order another axe without large arm and back bevels and a port in the bend of the upper shoulder.
I would ask for Jescar gold frets which last WAY longer than regular frets and look pretty, too.

Pickup?

Go big or go home. Haha

Absolutely write up a build sheet, as mentioned above. List every possible thing you want with pics and diagrams. As always, a picture is worth a lot of words!

Finally, consider what you want for a case, the tuners, and lastly the cosmetics.

and HAVE FUN

Paul

[colins]

Lots of good advice here about talking to the luthier, giving them plenty of information, then letting them run with it.

My 2 cents: I’ve had multiple builds and in every case the guitar has been outstanding and the builder has been great fun to work with. Also, in every case I have selected a builder by playing her or his guitars beforehand and being smitten by those guitars. You have not said whether you have played this luthier’s instruments and been blown away by them, and to me that is 90% of the success in a build. Guitarists have many different playing styles, and good luthiers build a wide variety of guitars. Before you get serious you should make sure that this luthier builds guitars that you like to play and to listen to, regardless of reputation, build quality, aesthetics etc.

Of course if you have already played ‘em and loved ’em, ignore the above!

Col

[Truckjohn]

Do some soul searching to know yourself. Decide why specifically you are buying a custom.

Explicitly communicate your #1 top priority. And then perhaps rank the others as lower priority in order. And remember - there is ONLY ONE top priority.... Everything else must be subordinated to that one thing.... If you list 6 "top #1 priorities" - 5 of those will be compromised to achieve the 6th... And you have no idea how the compromises will work out in the end...

I am not going to make judgement calls here - but I will list some "top priorities" that I have seen people express here as their #1 top priority:

Maximum comfort with respect to arm, shoulder, and hand issues.

Maximum resale value.

Maximum status value.

Minimum cost

Customized specifically for me - inlay, etc.

Acclaim from a specific community - such as the Art community, the Bluegrass community, the high end Guitar community, etc....

Very specific combination of construction details.

"Correct" replica of some historical piece..

Specific tone or volume or other musical considerations...

Etc.

So for example - if your #1 top priority is a VERY specific neck profile..... And your #2 priority is to maximize playing comfort due to arm/shoulder issues - you are going to give up a LOT in the resale department.....

And vice versa - if your top priority is maximum resale value, you are going to basically give up almost all customization and specific comfort related items to attract the maximum number of potential future buyers....

There is nothing wrong with this - but you have to pick....

Know yourself. Understand specifically what really makes you happy.... And go with THAT - not something that "The Internet" says is super important...

[Wolfram]

My number one piece of advice: make sure you know the builder's guitars well. By this I mean to have played several examples in-depth, and ideally had a chance to get to know them well. Just because a builder is a top-notch luthier does not mean their guitars are for you - just as there are some who fall distinctly into either the Martin or Taylor camp, a luthier-built guitar can be of superb quality but not for you.

Then, you can communicate tonal/physical/aesthetic requirements relative to the builder's own previous instruments. Being able to say something like "I loved the basic tone of your engelmann/EIR OM serial#76, but would really like to bring out just a bit more top-end shimmer; I like your neck profile but would like to go slightly wider at the nut" is much more easily understood by both you and the builder than something like "I want the bass of a Somogyi, the treble of a Traugott, and a deep C neck profile". Even worse "I'd like a creamy bass, and woody treble"... I've heard of luthiers getting both those sort of requirements.

Be familiar with (and love!) their guitars, understand what you're changing/specifying and why, and you're probably on to a winner.

Cheers,
David

[srick]

Thank you for this thread!

I spent an afternoon with Dale Fairbanks exploring these questions. I brought my two main guitars and talked about what I liked, and what I didn't and the features that I needed incorporated in a custom instrument. The back and forth was great. Dale played my guitars, and I played his. Magic happened at about an hour in when I started playing alternating bass on his Roy Smeck and was mesmerized. I had a goofy grin as I kept playing the alternating bass note and twanging it.

Although I had played Dale's guitars before, there was no substitute for playing them alongside my present guitars in a setting where I could hear the instrument and be comfortable. He politely gave me the stool while he sat upon a five gallon can of lacquer. At the end of the afternoon, I had the joy of holding his littlest guy (age 3) and hoisting him up to see the guitars and other treasures hiding in the rafters of the shop. Julian may have sealed the deal.

Now, my practical wife seems to think we need to pay for the recently installed roof, exterior house painting and 2019 wedding before I consider a custom order. Where's the fun in that?

Rick