Taylor 412 (not CE)

zowie · #1 02-21-2005, 11:17 AM

Hi everybody,

My old Yamaha electro-acoustic guitar died on me last week...

On saturday, I went shopping for a new guitar and after trying quite a few, I fell in love with a Taylor 412.

Needless to say that it was pretty far over my budget, but I think I'm gonna get it anyway !

My problem is : this guitar is NOT in the Taylor catalog anymore, and I was able to find very little information about it on the web.

The model I tried is NOT a 412 CE, and It's NOT a Mahogany 412.

The back and sides are made of Ovankgol and the features are similar to the current "CE" version except for a few details :

- White binding on the neck
- Darker top
- Some decoration details around the hole...
(I'll soon be posting a picture I found on the internet)

To get to the point, my questions are :
In what year did Taylor produce that specific model ?
Why did they stop it ?
Do you know anything about it ?

Thanks in advance for your answers and sorry for my english (I'm french).

Zowie

zowie · #2 02-21-2005, 11:24 AM

This guitar does exist...

cpmusic · #3 02-21-2005, 11:30 AM

Welcome, Zowie, and no worries are necessary -- your English is better than that of some who learned it from birth.

Taylor routinely adds or drops plain (non-CE) versions of different models from their catalog, so what appears in the catalog one year may not be there the next. Since Taylor will special order any model with or without the C or the E, it's also possible that it was ordered that way for a customer who backed out of the deal.

I don't know the specific year that 412 was built, but you can tell by looking at the serial number. If it was built in 2000 or later, it will start with a four-digit year (2000, 2001, etc.) and if it was built before that, it will start with a two-digit year (99, 98, etc.).

The white binding on the neck would place it at least back to 2003. The darker top has nothing to do with its age, except that Sitka spruce darkens as it ages. Some new Sitka boards are very pale golden-white, others are darker, and some are even streaked along the grain. It's nothing to worry about unless you just don't like the look.

Pricing is a little tricky when the model isn't in the catalog, and also because forum rules don't allow price posting here. I'll send you a private message for that info.

zowie · #4 02-21-2005, 12:49 PM

Thank you for your answer Chris, it confirms what I thought about this guitar probably being a 2002 or 2003 model.

If I believe spruce darkens with age, I seriously doubt it could darken that much within a year. The truth is I prefer the darker tone of the model I tried to the very light spruce they seem to be using for the last series...

Do you know where I could find a 2003 catalog or, at least, the specifications for that year's range ?

cpmusic · #5 02-21-2005, 01:07 PM

Zowie, it could be that the guitar spent some time in a sunlit room (not in direct sunlight, I hope), or that its top was just darker in the first place. I've seen a great range of Sitka tops right out of the box, from pale to medium amber. The better-looking wood goes first to the higher series guitars, and what's left goes on the satin models. Sometimes that means the satin guitars get nice looking tops, and other times not.

I used to have a couple of older Taylor price lists, but I haven't been able to find them lately. I'll look some more, but someone else may have one handy. As for the guitar's specifications, they'll be the same for the older models except for the fretboard binding, which the older ones have and the newer ones don't.

zowie · #6 02-21-2005, 01:17 PM

What led me to think that they used different spruce for the former generation of 400's is what I saw in the shop + 2 pictures (the one I sent before, and the one I'm sending now)....

zowie · #7 02-21-2005, 01:20 PM

cpmusic · #8 02-21-2005, 01:43 PM

I see what you mean, Zowie, but the last picture is from Taylor's website and meant to make the guitar look as close to perfect as possible, like food ads that make a burger look better than it ever does at the restaurant. I would bet that it's even retouched since there's absolutely no grain visible in the top. Whatever the case, don't let the look of the wood sway you one way or the other -- go for what sounds best, and you'll be happier in the long run.

By the way, the plain 412 you posted is more than a year or two old. It has the bridge pins arranged in a small arc, and they've been set in a straight line as in the last picture for at least five years. Since this guitar is visibly older and has an aftermarket pickup (Fishaman Rare Earth, I believe) I'm thinking that the guitar is used, but I've seen new-old-stock guitars that have hung around that long. There's absolutely nothing wrong either way, but it should cost less less than a new one that was made recently.

Also, if that pickup is a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (with a built-in mic), it's a nice extra. Those pickups are fairly expensive, and I think they're great.

wthurman · #9 02-21-2005, 01:59 PM

Sitka darkens with age. I've played sitka that was almost as light as Englemann and reallly dark, too. Plus, there's a lot of natural variation in color and striping right from the start.

And on Taylor's site, the color of the top has almost nothing to do with how they really look. They take away all reflections, and while Chris thinks it's a retouch, they almost look to me like high quality computer renderings, they're so sterile.

All the best,

Wade

Sugarlander · #10 02-21-2005, 02:33 PM

Zowie,
Look from a priviate message from me regarding list prices from 2001.

I second the comment above regarding your English. You have an excellent command of writing English.

zowie · #11 02-21-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpmusic

By the way, the plain 412 you posted is more than a year or two old. It has the bridge pins arranged in a small arc, and they've been set in a straight line as in the last picture for at least five years. Since this guitar is visibly older and has an aftermarket pickup (Fishaman Rare Earth, I believe) I'm thinking that the guitar is used, but I've seen new-old-stock guitars that have hung around that long. There's absolutely nothing wrong either way, but it should cost less less than a new one that was made recently.

Also, if that pickup is a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (with a built-in mic), it's a nice extra. Those pickups are fairly expensive, and I think they're great.

I found the picture of the plain 412 I posted on a website, it was a classified add (the guitar was sold, and there was no date at all).

I'm not sure if the one I saw in Paris had the "bridge pins arranged in a small arc" but that's a nice observation, and I will check it out tomorow !

Thank you again.

zowie · #12 02-21-2005, 04:14 PM

I have to admit that the pictures from the official website are not very realistic !!!

webcat · #13 02-21-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

And on Taylor's site, the color of the top has almost nothing to do with how they really look. They take away all reflections, and while Chris thinks it's a retouch, they almost look to me like high quality computer renderings, they're so sterile.

You hit the nail on the head there Thumper. I've never understood Taylor's approach to their site photography. It does look compter generated! When I ordered my 810 with a tobacco finish, I was worried to death it would look like the example on the site. As it turns out, the finish was awesome in person, and very hard to photograph I might add. The silking on the sitka top is just plain bee-ut-ti-ful! I'm glad I took the chance on the tobacco. It's the best no charge upgrade out there.

'Cat

zowie · #14 02-24-2005, 07:43 AM

After playing on the 412 I really thought that was the guitar I needed, but then I tried the 414 (CE).

It souds more "generous", strumming is more comfortable and the aspect is similar.

So my preference now goes to the Grand Auditorium series... (Given that I don't intend to plug the guitar)

What is you opinion on that matter ?

zowie · #15 02-24-2005, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpmusic

Welcome, Zowie, and no worries are necessary -- your English is better than that of some who learned it from birth.

Taylor routinely adds or drops plain (non-CE) versions of different models from their catalog, so what appears in the catalog one year may not be there the next. Since Taylor will special order any model with or without the C or the E, it's also possible that it was ordered that way for a customer who backed out of the deal.

I don't know the specific year that 412 was built, but you can tell by looking at the serial number. If it was built in 2000 or later, it will start with a four-digit year (2000, 2001, etc.) and if it was built before that, it will start with a two-digit year (99, 98, etc.).

The white binding on the neck would place it at least back to 2003. The darker top has nothing to do with its age, except that Sitka spruce darkens as it ages. Some new Sitka boards are very pale golden-white, others are darker, and some are even streaked along the grain. It's nothing to worry about unless you just don't like the look.

Pricing is a little tricky when the model isn't in the catalog, and also because forum rules don't allow price posting here. I'll send you a private message for that info.

You were right all the way !
I went to the music store and checked the serial numbers....
The 412 I fell in love with was a 2002.
The 414 CE that was on sale as a second hand was a 1998 (with the pins forming a arch...)

BTW, I think the pins looked better before 99 !