Wound B and E strings?

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

What a "rope" core is I don't know.

Thomastik Infeld "rope" is "woven steel rope core". Some refer to it as braided wire cable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_rope

[Strings By Mail]

Great topic here and nice responses, I think everyone covered most of the options out there.

A big thing to note is the Thomastik-Infeld / John Pearse Folk Fingerpicking PJ116 Guitar Strings can be used on both classical and acoustic guitars. Offered in full, bass, treble and single strings.

For acoustic, there are not many options (at all) for wound high e. Even a wound BW020 from D'Addario yields 25.6 lbs when taking a 2nd string down tuned to 'a' for DADgad tuning. So getting a wound 1st e is tough.
Haven't heard of anyone trying the T-I AC014, and don't know what the tension would be.

For classical, the other option for all 6 wound as mentioned would be the Savarez 520P1. Offered in full, bass and single strings.

For tackling a "b" at pitch and proper tension, you could try a Pyramid silver wound .017

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Strings By Mail

For tackling a "b" at pitch and proper tension, you could try a Pyramid silver wound .017

A lute string? That's something I'd bet most of us would never think of. Thanks.

[Strings By Mail]

zmf - Back when we brought them on, we were surprised ourselves to find out how many gauges Pyramid makes, even in between gauges. They have proven themselves to be a great string maker, both in quality and quantity. Many customers (not just lute players) custom pick and experiment to find exactly what works for them.

If you are interested in a less expensive option, La Bella offers a line of silver wound singles down to .017 as well!

[SJ VanSandt]

Originally Posted by XYRN

I like John Pearse strings, have 'em on 4 guitars.
I didn't know about these, I'll have to order a set!

Check out those gauges before you invest in the Folk-fingerpicking strings! They are very light gauge, very light tension strings. I bought some once so I could play through an injury but changed them out as soon as I could. No power, no volume - no resemblance to the John Pierces I'm used to playing!

No knock on those who like them: for some guitars they are just the ticket, no doubt, but not for my dreads or small jumbos, and not for my tastes.

[121]

Dogal Nightclub V24 are bronze flatwound string set
which has a .016w bronze flatwound B and plain steel E.

[Misifus]

Fifty years ago, I saw a jazz album cover that featured a gold colored arch top with purple wound strings on all strings. At the time I was more of a folkie so I didn’t pursue those strings, although that image has stuck with me.

[SongwriterFan]

Dang, you asked the question I was just asking myself. Can I get wound B and E strings?

What I'm really trying to do is quell the "shrillness" (when amplified, mainly) of the B and E strings when I'm capo'd at the fifth fret.

I know I could just play in C without a capo, but the guitar sounds better (except for that shrillness) with my voice if I capo at the fifth fret and play in the shape of G.

I've tried cutting back the trebles a LOT with the Baggs DI, and even playing up closer to the fretboard.

Maybe I need to learn to strum with just my thumb when up that high, rather than thumb and index finger.

[Misifus]

Many, many years ago there was a jazz album cover showing a gold arch top with fully wound strings, all six wound, all six purple. I’ve no idea what the strings were, but I was intrigued then and remain so.

[Nama Ensou]

The first problem I thought of was how quickly the winding on the G string wears out and that it would be much faster on the two thinner strings yet.

So I'd be interested in seeing someone thinking outside the box and doing the B and E in a half-wound string that left the normal approach over the frets, but wound where the picking or strumming was happening. I really like the idea of doing something to get a warmer sound, halfway between nylon and normal steel strings.

[Alan Carruth]

One thing that most people don't think of is how the construction relates to how high you can tune a string before it breaks. Basically, a plain string breaks when the stress per unit of cross section area exceeds the strength of the material. The pitch of the string is set by the relationship between tension and mass; if the mass doubles then you need twice as much tension to reach a given pitch. But doubling the mass also doubles the cross section area, so the stress per unit of area is the same at any given pitch for a given material. Hence, all plain steel strings of a given length tend to break at about the same pitch.

There are a couple of things that affect this a bit. Breaks always start where there's a flaw of some kind in the material, and the larger the flaw the sooner the string breaks. There is less room for flaws in a thin string, so they may hold up a bit better at higher pitch (what happens is, of course, that they break during manufacture, and never make it to the store). Also, the process of drawing out the wire tends to align the crystal structure of the metal on the surface, which adds some strength. Tin strings have more surface compared to their volume, and benefit from this more.

You can't really work with a string that's tuned to 100% of it's theoretical tension limit. For one thing, wrapping the string around the tuner post increases the tension on the outside of the bend, so the string would break there at lower than 100%T. The piano tuner's rule is to run strings at about 75%T; high enough to get them to sound good, but low enough to keep from breaking too many.

Most string instruments are designed to have the highest pitched string somewhere near that 75%T. Guitars run a bit lower, since the strings get more abuse than piano strings. You can take a plain steel string up to G or even A above the high e pitch: we do that all the time on 12-strings. They also break a lot of octave G strings....

You can use a plain steel string for the B without too much trouble, although, of course, it's never quite as good as the high E. Plain steel G strings have all sorts of issues with pitch stability, poor overtones, and intonation, but if you like to 'bend' notes.....

The function of winding on a string is to add some mass to drop the pitch, without adding any stiffness that would throw the overtones off. In theory you could use the same core diameter as the high E and just add enough mass to get the pitch down at the same tension as the E. In practice there are other considerations, so real string sets don't all have the same tension.

The bottom line is that a steel high E with winding would be tricky to make, and fragile. B strings are on the edge of doable. I have seen players shred the winding on G strings in a matter of minutes in extreme cases, but they usually work well enough. There are reasons why the manufacturers sell what they sell.

Strings are the simplest part of the system, but they're far from 'simple'.

[bkepler]

I beta tested a set a while ago and really liked them on my Lowden. In fact, I liked them so much that I haven’t taken them off yet. They haven’t been seeing a ton of playing time, so they’re still hanging in there. I’ll certainly buy a new set if they ever make it to market.

[s11141827]

Originally Posted by bkepler

I beta tested a set a while ago and really liked them on my Lowden. In fact, I liked them so much that I haven’t taken them off yet. They haven’t been seeing a ton of playing time, so they’re still hanging in there. I’ll certainly buy a new set if they ever make it to market.

Hang on the Treble strings appear to be a kind of Nylon wound in Nylon. The technology for making strings really needs to be updated to allow for Acoustic & Electric string sets w/ all wound strings. The core is super thin but it's reinforced by being compound wound like strings for bowed stringed instruments.

[s11141827]

Originally Posted by hammer40

As mentioned, the 520P set does not have the wound 1st treble string. The Savarez 520P1 does have all wound trebles though, including the 1st treble string. Keep in mind, we are talking about nylon wound over nylon cores.

I have played the Savarez 520P1’s though, while I did like the tone, I felt the trebles lacked a little in sustain. Also, being wound there is quite a bit of string noise, despite being micro wound. The texture takes some getting used to if you play finger style.

I think bridge beads might help enhance their sound

[s11141827]

Originally Posted by bkepler

I beta tested a set a while ago and really liked them on my Lowden. In fact, I liked them so much that I haven’t taken them off yet. They haven’t been seeing a ton of playing time, so they’re still hanging in there. I’ll certainly buy a new set if they ever make it to market.

What kind of sound do those strings make?