Singer Songwriter and condenser mics

[Silly Moustache]

I have been the front man singer in many bands, trios quartets etc.
Therefore my lyrics and chat are important, and I want the audience to hear them clearly.

I use an old Rode NT1. It's the only mic used at my club for all acts. People are always saying how clean and clear the sound is.

I've heard too many performers, even pros who don't know how to use an SM58.

[Per Burström]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I use an old Rode NT1. It's the only mic used at my club for all acts. People are always saying how clean and clear the sound is.

I have a NT1 (new generation) in my home studio, and it's really amazing. I'm impressed to hear though that you are able to use it on stage, don't you get a lot of feedback problems?

/Per

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by washy21

Does anyone here use a conenser mic for their vocals. I’m looking at buying one but not sure what the real world advantages will be over my SM58.

I don't know if you have purchased a mic yet but a Rode M2 live condenser might be another recommendation. I've had it for a few years, used it live and I like its airy tone.

[YamahaGuy]

A few of my thoughts:

Jack Johnson uses a Neumann 104 or 105 and his sound is terrific

Though the 58 has been around a long time and is 'industry standard" there are lots of great dynamic mics that may work better for your voice and for amateurs on a mixer may require no eq work

I have an active dynamic (Blue Encore 200) which is excellent live, just a little more prone to feedback than I'd like

I have used a condenser (Blue Encore 300) live and it requires rolling off the bass and the proximity effect makes getting a consistently good volume difficult. That said, the vocals are crystal clear when they come through.

At the price point, I'd buy the Sennheiser 865. It gets pretty good reviews, and for $170 off, you can't go wrong. I may buy one before the sale ends. I own two 935s and a 945 and they're great mics.

Sadly, Sweetwater don’t ship to the UK so that is a missed bargain but I’m not ruling it out as in the UK I have found a good deal.

So on my list is:

Rode S1
Sennheiser e865
Shure Beta 87a
Shure ksm9


The ksm9 is mega expensive but I’ve only ever read good reviews, but to be fair the e865 and Beta87a get good reviews.

[KevWind]

For my voice I prefer stage condensers ove dynamics
I have a discontinued AKG C900 M and Shure Beta 87 as a back up mic

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by washy21

Sadly, Sweetwater don’t ship to the UK so that is a missed bargain but I’m not ruling it out as in the UK I have found a good deal.



So on my list is:



Rode S1

Sennheiser e865

Shure Beta 87a

Shure ksm9





The ksm9 is mega expensive but I’ve only ever read good reviews, but to be fair the e865 and Beta87a get good reviews.

I would try all of these out if you can. The Beta 87a is a great vocal mic. If I remember correctly Peter Gabriel used them for years (with in-ear monitors to be fair). These days he is using Audix.

Don’t dismiss “better” dynamic mics: you might just find that a Sennheiser e935 (cardioid) or e945 (super-cardioid) will do the trick. The 945 is my go-to dynamic of choice for many applications, has a frequency response closer to a condenser but with more tolerance for higher sound pressure etc.

I’m more confused.

I popped into my local store today to discuss dynamic -v- condenser; they stock both. The advice was to steer clear of condenser vocal mics unless you can have control over the environment, eg, noisy rooms etc.

The last thing I want to do is shell out for a mic only to find that it’s unusable.

[MikeBmusic]

They were not wrong - noisy rooms and not-ideal set-up or monitoring situations is where a condenser mic will give you issues.

Thanks

Yes this is what’s putting me off buying one. However, excuse my ignorance, but why does a noisy audience, for example render these condenser microphones troublesome?

I ask because, on viewing youtube videos they show vocal condeser mics in settings where there absolutely is bound to be a lot of room noise from large venues. How do they control that I wonder?

[atticus1019]

If you are unhappy with the frequency response of your dynamic mic, you can buy or build a box that changes the input impedance that the mic sees from the board. It is literally an XLR Male jack and an XLR Female jack wired together with a 1k potentiometer in between. You’ll get a little bit of an output drop but no more than 5 or 6 dB which is easily made up at the board. In the SM57/58 as you lower the impedance ratio between the board/microphone the low mid peak starts to even out and the frequency response in general becomes more linear. It’s a fun, easy project for those interested in getting into DIY audio and really does make a difference in microphone performance.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by washy21

Thanks

Yes this is what’s putting me off buying one. However, excuse my ignorance, but why does a noisy audience, for example render these condenser microphones troublesome?

I ask because, on viewing youtube videos they show vocal condeser mics in settings where there absolutely is bound to be a lot of room noise from large venues. How do they control that I wonder?

It doesn't per se BUT There are general characteristics... like condensers tend to be more sensitive so generally they are more likely to pic up more sound in including audience noise and they can also to be more prone to feedback

But first we need to distinguish between condenser mics specifically designed for live stage use and condenser mics designed for studio use.
Condenser mics specifically designed for stage generally tend to have better off axis rejection. So in general they are less "troublesome" than condenser studio mics.
But all of this is relative to the situations you are likely to be in
for example if you are in a band that plays loud, has guitar amps on stage and plays noisy bar rooms then you are probably better off with a Shure SM 58
The further your situations get from that one the more a good stage condenser become a viable possibility

[varmonter]

i have a 58 i bought back in th 80s . i used it awhile
back to mic my compact 60. it worked and sounded
great despite the rusty grill. There is a reason
everyone is calling them "industry standard"..
I have tried many condensor mics but could
never get a warm fuzzy about any of them live.
Not mentioned yet for a dynamic choice is a
Heil pr35. I have one and with judicious eq i.e. a lot
of low end roll off I absolutely love this mic for my voice.
it just sits good in the mix. I am a baritone YMMV.

[actaylor]

Another alternative to a condenser mic is the Shure SM7B. This mic is famously known as the mic Michael Jackson used to record the vocals on the Thriller album. It's interesting that his engineers could've used just about any mic and chose the SM7B.

The SM7B is a dynamic mic, but really high quality. It's very often seen in radio studios as it tends to reject a lot of background sounds. I have one and have used it on a variety of projects in studio. I have also seen some performers use it in singer-songwriter situations.

The SM7B needs a little extra gain sometimes. It's commonly paired with the Cloudlifter CL-1 which provides additional clean gain and really makes the SM7B come to life.

Originally Posted by atticus1019

If you are unhappy with the frequency response of your dynamic mic, you can buy or build a box that changes the input impedance that the mic sees from the board. It is literally an XLR Male jack and an XLR Female jack wired together with a 1k potentiometer in between. You’ll get a little bit of an output drop but no more than 5 or 6 dB which is easily made up at the board. In the SM57/58 as you lower the impedance ratio between the board/microphone the low mid peak starts to even out and the frequency response in general becomes more linear. It’s a fun, easy project for those interested in getting into DIY audio and really does make a difference in microphone performance.

Thank for this - however DIY is my least favorite activity.