Played Taylor V-class at Gryphon today for 1.5 hours, my thoughts!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by TAYLORFAN50

You could apply that same analogy to any brand of guitar - unfortunately some prefer to always look at the glass as half empty.

Great review by the way!

It isn't an analogy, it's the truth. The proof of the pudding, as ever, is in the eating. Until Powers proves empirically that bracing has an impact on intonation, I reserve the right to remain sceptical of marketing bull. If Martin, with their new 8k model with the carbon fibre bits, are expecting people to believe that it is 'proven' that their 'Liquidmetal' bridge pins will result in an increase in volume of 'several decibels' then you can come and see Bigfoot. He's living in my garden shed with Mrs. Bigfoot and Bigfoot Jr. I would have them in the house, but they're a little fragrant

[printer2]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I got interested in Taylor guitars after they changed to the new advanced performance bracing. Before that, I felt the bass response was too subdued. I find it funny that they are possibly abandoning the advanced bracing which made me I tested in Taylor in the first place. For my solo singer/song writer stuff, I can’t foresee wanting any guitar that would have less bass than the current 816ce. And, even that is reserved in comparison to a D-28. Unfortunately, this review is confirming my suspicions when I read the patent information online before the big reveal. :-(.

On a positive note, I may be able to get my hands on a current 810e or 816ce Deluxe, for a very low price, in the next year or two.

From what I understand the way to get more bass is to have a good size resonance peak, the way to have a smooth response and more sustain is to have the peaks brought down. That is one trade off that can be made in designing a guitar. A little loss of volume usually won't be noticed but sustain and evenness will. The V bracing was said to give you it all.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It isn't an analogy, it's the truth. The proof of the pudding, as ever, is in the eating. Until Powers proves empirically that bracing has an impact on intonation, I reserve the right to remain sceptical of marketing bull. If Martin, with their new 8k model with the carbon fibre bits, are expecting people to believe that it is 'proven' that their 'Liquidmetal' bridge pins will result in an increase in volume of 'several decibels' then you can come and see Bigfoot. He's living in my garden shed with Mrs. Bigfoot and Bigfoot Jr. I would have them in the house, but they're a little fragrant

But Andrew, you were looking to slag someone's impressions from having actually played them. The proof in the eating, as it were. And here you are saying it is because you don't buy in to the marketing. Well, the OP was posting about their experience, not the marketing.

[Seagull S6]

I'm thinking probably more evolutionary than revolutionary. Won't make the older guitars obsolete but might make for some bargains on the used market. The V-Bracing just might sound kinda sterile to some as well as sounding fantastic to others.............

[Vancebo]

So what I want to know is since Taylor will be in my neck of the woods (pun intended) this coming Tuesday an hour drive from me, is it worth it to go?

I can be patient and wait too. It's not like I am a spoiled, impatient child.

[golfreggie]

Originally Posted by sakar12

I love this typo.

I imagine my playing sometimes terrifies my guitars and let me tell you, they don't sound as good when it does.

I couldn't stop giggling, just imagining the "terrified" look on the tops! Still laughing at the image in my mind!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

But Andrew, you were looking to slag someone's impressions from having actually played them. The proof in the eating, as it were. And here you are saying it is because you don't buy in to the marketing. Well, the OP was posting about their experience, not the marketing.

Absolutely; I'm happy to accept a person's subjective and anecdotal evidence as their evidence. I'll reserve judgement on the instrument until I have the opportunity to play it myself. Judgement of the marketing nonsense? I'll call it for what it is. I did not at any time 'slag' our colleague's impressions.

[Mycroft]

Looks like my post about having played them has fallen to the second page again for the second time today, but there was something from it that I want to repost here for any Washingtonians who might be interested. Dusty Strings will have the Taylor rep in the store on Wednesday, and they said that he will also be at Wintergrass next weekend, either at the Dusty booth or the one that Taylor has. I don't know if he will be there all four days...

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by GTomcan

That was a very good review cybershot , Thanks!

As a long time Taylor fan , I am happy to see what is a improvement to there acoustics. I'm old now and have slowed down my compulsive trading and am just content with the sound of my older Taylors I think I have the first 3 generations of bracing up to Adirondack CV, GA . they work fine for me.
Who knows the original X may someday be a "Golden Era" per say,( I think that Martin may have that Trade Marked) limited option, for classic reissue (sales marketing gimmick).

Yea it's tough to say, I think Taylors from all generations have something special and "different" about them. I have to say, my 2012 DN3e is still my favorite sounding acoustic ever. Very deep, woody sound!

Originally Posted by MChild62

Cybershot, I literally joined the AGF a few days ago because I could not find any meaningful views anywhere else of Taylor's new V-Class guitars. Your review was exactly what I hoped to find: competent, balanced, healthy skepticism, and open-minded to new concepts, and ability to compare/contrast with existing Taylors.
Thanks so much for the time you put into sharing your views. Awesome!

You're welcome!

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I got interested in Taylor guitars after they changed to the new advanced performance bracing. Before that, I felt the bass response was too subdued. I find it funny that they are possibly abandoning the advanced bracing which made me I tested in Taylor in the first place. For my solo singer/song writer stuff, I can’t foresee wanting any guitar that would have less bass than the current 816ce. And, even that is reserved in comparison to a D-28. Unfortunately, this review is confirming my suspicions when I read the patent information online before the big reveal. :-(.

On a positive note, I may be able to get my hands on a current 810e or 816ce Deluxe, for a very low price, in the next year or two.

I would say that the bass response was definitely better than the Standard II bracing that was used for a long time before the Performance bracings. Probably similar to the CV bracing actually. But the Performance bracings are just incredible in this department.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Interesting, but the cynic in me wonders if the models chosen for demo were cherry-picked...given that we're dealing with wood it's a guarantee that there will be duds, mediocre players and then the cream at the top, among Taylor's output. Bracing won't change that.

I believe the 4 guitars that Taylor brought were actually going to stay at Gryphon and be for sale, because they had the Gryphon logo for sale tags on them with the price. So I'm not quite sure how hand-picked they were, because Taylor is currently traveling the country doing a lot of these demos.

Originally Posted by pukematrix

Do we know if V-class bracing will eventually phase out their current X-bracing entirely across all of the lines, or will they be offering each model with both bracing patterns? From a tooling and specialization perspective, it would make sense if we'd only be able to buy a V-class braced Taylor at some point, but has Taylor confirmed that to be the case? I don't have a leaning either way, having not played the new bracing pattern personally - just curious if they'll still cater to the traditionalists among their customer base who prefer their guitars X-braced.

Thanks for the write up. I'm going to be paying Gryphon a visit in early March when I'm out in San Jose for work. Bringing my newly acquired Lowden in for a check-up and a little repair work. Looking forward to the visit.

Austin

Yes, the GA body-type for all 300 series and above will have V-class bracing by the end of the year.

Originally Posted by wooglins

Great review. What did you think of the builders edition. Finish, tone, etc.

It was the most matte-satin finish I've come across, for sure.The guitar was almost "slippery" in that there was no drag on the back of the neck, or on your clothes from the body. They said that one of the reasons they made it that way was for recording purposes, they wanted no squeaky sounds from the guitar rubbing on your lap on a strap. The tone was more subdued than the 914ce, slightly quieter, drier and crisper. It was my favorite of all 4 tone-wise. I am partial the woody tones of koa, mahogany, sapele, etc. Which is one of the reasons I'm so excited for the 300 series. It was an excellent sounding guitar.

Originally Posted by 00045

Great review, thanks.

Did the Taylor guys say anything about 12 string guitars with V bracing?

I didn't ask, sorry!

[Birdbrain]

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

I would think that sales of Taylors which have not yet rec'd the new magic bracing would grind to a halt. Why would someone want a design that the manufacturer itself considers sub-optimal?

Are you an engineer? Who else would say that? Someone trying to optimize all the parameters to achieve an optimum result, with maximum signal/noise ratio, that's who.

I've had doubts over my technique and tools before, but worrying whether my guitar is "sub-optimal" never crossed my mind. That would be like measuring and analyzing my dinner. Guitars, like clothes, weather and companions are different. My question is, do they suit me? Can I work with them? Do I like how we sound together?

[Doug Young]

I spent a (short) bit of time with one of the 914s and the K14 builders edition this morning at Gryphon. I didn't AB them with any non-V braced Taylors, and can't offer the detailed assessment of cybershot, but I thought they sounded good, seemed to have noticeably impressive sustain and were very smooth and even all the way up the neck. I'd also say they aren't *that* different, they still sounded like Taylors, so for anyone afraid that the changes are too radical, I'd say that's probably not an issue.

The K14 was especially interesting with the contoured and beveled cutaway. I've only seen this sort of contoured cutaway once before, with Dennis Scannell's True North guitars, and it's a pretty impressive piece of work. It looks great, but the cutaway just felt good, and gave really easy access all the way to the top-most frets. The other bevels as well as the rounded edges on all the binding makes it a really comfortable guitar. The satin finish was nice, too.

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I spent a (short) bit of time with one of the 914s and the K14 builders edition this morning at Gryphon. I didn't AB them with any non-V braced Taylors, and can't offer the detailed assessment of cybershot, but I thought they sounded good, seemed to have noticeably impressive sustain and were very smooth and even all the way up the neck. I'd also say they aren't *that* different, they still sounded like Taylors, so for anyone afraid that the changes are too radical, I'd say that's probably not an issue.

The K14 was especially interesting with the contoured and beveled cutaway. I've only seen this sort of contoured cutaway once before, with Dennis Scannell's True North guitars, and it's a pretty impressive piece of work. It looks great, but the cutaway just felt good, and gave really easy access all the way to the top-most frets. The other bevels as well as the rounded edges on all the binding makes it a really comfortable guitar. The satin finish was nice, too.

Yea that cutaway sure was nice. And I do agree with you, they aren't that different. Just really nice guitars.

[vindibona1]

Now you got me interested to go to the event at CME coming up.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It isn't an analogy, it's the truth. The proof of the pudding, as ever, is in the eating. Until Powers proves empirically that bracing has an impact on intonation, I reserve the right to remain sceptical of marketing bull. If Martin, with their new 8k model with the carbon fibre bits, are expecting people to believe that it is 'proven' that their 'Liquidmetal' bridge pins will result in an increase in volume of 'several decibels' then you can come and see Bigfoot. He's living in my garden shed with Mrs. Bigfoot and Bigfoot Jr. I would have them in the house, but they're a little fragrant

What's the "truth"? Your claim that they hand picked the guitars, sorry, that's not a fact. You made a speculation, that's not a fact.

If there were any facts in your post I missed them. Please point them out for me.