Pro and Cons of digital mixers

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by troggg

But one of the reasons some digital mixers are not necessarily expensive is that they require or would greatly benefit from an iPad -- which can be expensive. As in Behringer does and QSC doesn't. So you'd have to factor that in.

Your point is well made. I have an older Ipad that I will likely use. I also bought an inexpensive Android tablet (less than $50) that I will either use along with the Ipad or alone. It works fine for this task. The Ipad and Android apps appear to be stable and intuitive and give the sense of a physical mixer in ease of use.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Nymuso

Having used digital mixers, for me it's only cons. Expense and complexity head the list. I don't want to go through menus and sub menus to make a slight adjustment to the bass on channel 3, I just want to reach over and do it.

Might be fine for the studio, but on a gig, give me analog.

I'm with you on that. K.I.S.S. principle.

[lkingston]

When calculators were first released, there were similar debates to this about whether or not slide rules or electronic calculators were better. It took a while, and some engineers and mathematicians held out for quite a while, but in the end...well...let me just point out that a lot of you are going to have to google “slide rule” to even know what it is!

[Ruppster]

I played a gig recently with a drummer who had his own PA (go figure). He booked us to play with him in a bar he owned. He tried to fine tune the mix using an iPad. The problem is the controls are so small it's hard to fine tune so we helplessly stood in front of the audience while the PA howled and squealed. Folks got so mad they started walking out. They were giving us the stinky eye because we were fronting the gig and there wasn't a **** thing we could do. It was a horrible gig and we decided we'd never work with him again.

The irony is that the PA was sitting right beside the drummer within easy reach to tweak using good old fashioned knobs. He kept trying to caress the iPad screen to no avail.

It was awful.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Ruppster

I played a gig recently with a drummer who had his own PA (go figure). He booked us to play with him in a bar he owned. He tried to fine tune the mix using an iPad. The problem is the controls are so small it's hard to fine tune so we helplessly stood in front of the audience while the PA howled and squealed. Folks got so mad they started walking out. They were giving us the stinky eye because we were fronting the gig and there wasn't a **** thing we could do. It was a horrible gig and we decided we'd never work with him again.

The irony is that the PA was sitting right beside the drummer within easy reach to tweak using good old fashioned knobs. He kept trying to caress the iPad screen to no avail.

It was awful.

yes the controls are like made for a kids hands.
best to use the boards wheel. I think they
have a way to go like autonomous cars.

[gfa]

I'm extremely happy to have upgraded from analog (Yamaha MG something) to digital (QSC Touchmix). So many more tools available, all in one compact box. The Touchmix series has a built-in screen, and can also be run with a tablet. Both are easy to use.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Ruppster

The problem is the controls are so small it's hard to fine tune.

Alas fine print is a factor on stage. It's definitely part of the equation. I have to figure out what'll work for me (probably one of T1/T4S/Play Acoustic to pair with L1C) that I can change scenes on without reaching for reading glasses. But that's another thread.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

Everyone recommends buying an external router. I don't know about the other manufacturers..

That's what I did. Used routers are cheap on Craigslist and similar sites. I bought an ASUS RT-N66U, which sells new for $100-150 (originally about $250), in perfect condition for $30.

The advantages of the external router include multiple bands, the ability to hard-wire my laptop to the mixer and still use WiFi for my tablet. When I'm at home I connect the router WAN connection to my home network so I have internet access while still maintaining a separate mixer network.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Ruppster

He tried to fine tune the mix using an iPad. The problem is the controls are so small it's hard to fine tune so we helplessly stood in front of the audience while the PA howled and squealed.

For clarity:

It's worth reminding ourselves that feedback/howlaround is not caused by the mixer, it's (effectively) caused by inappropriate choice and placement of mics/pickups and speakers. If you find yourself fighting f/b during the gig then your preparation was flawed or something has changed. Analogue/digital does not figure on that side of the equation. Recognising where it is in the system is better done with the ears and logical deduction, remedying it should be no more complicated on digital when you understand the tools at your disposal. I have big, fat fingers - no issue.

I remember one of the first times I was up close with a large analogue mixer and associated outboard. Had I been left to engineer a gig that day it would have been (slow) carnage. These days, having developed some understanding of the detail and overall vision of the process I could handle that with no pressure, so long as all the patch leads were in order.

The same is true for digital. You only have to consider all the many options when you're designing your setup, most of them will be irrelevant to your needs, although it may not stay that way as your confidence and understanding develops.

For instance - I put all my wedges on a VCA, meaning I can drop the overall level on all wedges with one fader without sacrificing individual control. This was not suggested in the manual, I picked it up on a discussion forum.

Drums, vocals and melody instruments are on stereo groups with overall as well as individual control.

Once I've set up on channels I actually mix mainly on VCAs, one thing that would not be an option on an analogue desk where it would be 3/4 faders on one hand.

I don't need to read small print as I know where everything is on the screen, I have colour coded various things where the option exists.

These are examples of how my workflow has adapted to manage the many new options in a live situation. Having made those changes in my setup/workflow I now mix as happily on any of the digital desks I'm faced with as I ever did on any analogue.

Manual (stick shift) vs automatic, anyone?

P.S. for the record, I also struggle with setting up multi FX pedals in a hurry, particularly the Zoom A2 now that the printed lettering has worn off, but that's a good example of bad design which hopefully is becoming a thing of the past.

[The Kid!]

Had a QSC TouchMix 16. The feature set and small form factor are amazing. I loved it when I had two hands available to mix.

However, when I'm playing and running the sound on my solo show, a quick EQ tweak was a pain. I sold it and use either a Soundcraft EFX 8 or and A&H MixWiz now.