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  #16  
Old 08-15-2005, 01:47 PM
dthumb dthumb is offline
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Default Now, be honest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkstrum
Didn't read the rest of the thread. Sorry, If I'm repeating. This IS represented as being "as good as" or comparing to a Martin 40 series. This is a joke. Not a funny one. Comparing his plywood el-junko to a high-end Martin is a travesty.

If I were CF IV, I'd sue the guy. "hey, lookit my 5k guitar! Mine's just as good for 1/10th the price (or less)." Right.Sure. Esteban may be a marketing genius, but his guitars have no cred on the street. They blow chunks. Read the reviews and the poor folks who have been suckered in by these. Sad.
What do you REALLY think???
Truthfully, have you played a bunch of these and LEARNED to hate them or is this all hearsay?..I can't seem to get direct answers to my questions...read below.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2005, 01:58 PM
jackweasel jackweasel is offline
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Well, I for one have played one and I have to agree with the majority of posts/replys here. They SUCK! i played one a friend's wife bought and had to hurry from the house so she wouldn't see me throw up. a week later I played a Wal-Mart "First Act" acoustic and it was ten times the guitar at the same or lesser price.
Save yourselves the shipping cost and the grief folks, go to Wally-World if that'sd what you're after.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dthumb
What do you REALLY think???
Truthfully, have you played a bunch of these and LEARNED to hate them or is this all hearsay?..I can't seem to get direct answers to my questions...read below.
What else do you want. A luthier who has seen quite a few and said that they were all crap. Several others who have seen or played at least one and said they were crap. (I've seen two and played one. It was crap and the other one was falling apart and being pronounced dead by a guitar tech.)

There are many...many...many reviews online pronouncing them crap and.....we are all just prejudiced against them.

If they really are crap....what evidence would there be that we don't have.

They are crap. Trust us.

Last edited by Abdiel; 08-15-2005 at 05:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2005, 04:58 PM
dthumb dthumb is offline
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Angry That 'bout says it all....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdiel
.we are all just prejudiced against them.

...what evidence would there be that we don't have.

Trust us.
Now tell me....If I told you what you just told me...would you trust MY judgement?
To begin with, I, myself , have been playing guitar for over thirty years and have own MANY outstanding guitars. Some of them were "off brands" that I found by chance because I LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS and ignore the rest.
There is the distinct possibility that if an Estaban rivaled a Martin you would not see or hear it do to your preconcieved notions about Estaban and his marketing about which I know nothing. Perhaps because I have better things to do than watch tv at 3:00 am.(like sleep)
Now, as for a quarum...you have at least ONE dissenting voice. MINE. I happen to have a guitar that I inherited that doesn't suck and actually is kinda ok (for a beginner type which my late father-in-law was) that has the name Estaban on it. So much for the "everybody says" crap. Only those with negative comments and personal grievances bothered to reply. Only Pistolero took into consideration that they are market specific.And more appalling yet is what "experts" you guys are who have either NEver played one or have played ONLY one. I gotta tell ya...I've played Taylors that I thought sucked and were GREATLY over priced and over marketed. Well built , yes , but so what...They ain't furniture, they're guitars.If they don't sound good to me I don't call them crap (even if I think hey are) I call them not for me, thank you.
I can understand a luthiers' standpoint. They are quite cheaply built...at least this one is. I don't know about the others. I haven't played them.
So, what I'm saying is GROW UP! If you have something to say that you feel would be illuminating about the guitar I'd love to hear it otherwise ....well, you get my point, I'm sure.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2005, 05:13 PM
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I've seen, played and heard enough about them to tell anybody who tells me that they are thinking about buying one to go almost any other route they can find.

As for when I said "We are all just prejudiced against them" apparently your sarcasm meter is in need of new batteries.

LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS all you want. I'd suggest that if anyone you care to keep as a friend asks you what beginner guitar to buy that you "LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS" about any number of other less expensive and much better guitars.

If an Esteban ever did rival a Martin as you suggest I would indeed hear it if I was in the same room with it because I feel compelled to pick them up out of morbid curiousity if nothing else.

I guess if the three edited sentences that you posted were all that I told you then...yeah I guess that is kind of shakey. But when you consider that there you can't just go to a Guitar Center or any other local store to try one out then I think that ...ok...not "everyone" if you insist on being pedantic, hates them...but almost everyone who has come in to contact with one thinks they are rubbish then yes, I think there just may be a grain of truth. Two out of two for me were crap. I've heard similar numbers from many others. (BTW..I was looking for "everyone" in my original post and can't seem to find it. )

I'm thrilled that you got the 1 in 100 Estebans that apparently has held up. All I was asking is what kind of evidence you wanted to hear to confirm that warning people off of these pieces of junk was a good general policy.

Last edited by Abdiel; 08-15-2005 at 05:21 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-15-2005, 05:33 PM
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dthumb: first, it's "EstEban"--"Stephen" in Spanish.
second: "Quorum" doesn't mean unanimous-it's a Robert's Rule defining a required majority of a consituted body enabling them to move, second, discuss and vote on a motion validly-"quorum" in many cases is a simple majority, which could be 51% vs. 49%.

In this case, there is "quorum" on Esteban guitars. The motion that they stink passes by overwhelming majority. Now--you are a bit defensive, having inherited one. That is fine, and if you like it, find it playable and can use it for a boat or beach instrument, more power to you. No one is dissing YOU. Perhaps, like many high quality instruments that vary one to another, you "inherited" a decently made one. That is certainly not the majority opinion from those who have owned or played them, including a respected luthier on this site, or reviews of them on Harmony Central (which is far from an objective site, I know-but there are MANY reviews!).

I believe MY main axe to grind with him has to do with the portrayal of this instrument as rivaling a 5k+ Martin 40 series; combine that with many who have gotton materially defective guitars, tried to return them to QVC, or wherever and gotton stonewalled, had the black "stain" on the fretboard rub off on their fingers or clothing, or had their guitars simply "explode," and his incessant dropping of Andres Segovia's name, and you can sense the tip of the iceberg. And you don't have to stay up until 3:00 a.m. to catch his infomercial; it's on all sorts of times during the programming day. He also sells CD's of himself, and plays in hotel lounges. Without his "Zorro" outfit, you'd never recognize Stephen Paul as "Esteban."

On the plus side, many here have agreed he has some chops, and can play guitar. It's just doubtful he would ever play a real "gig" with the guitar he hawks. Kevin Gallagher's suggestion to take an interested guitar novice to a music shop just seems so much more rational, don't you think? Meanwhile, enjoy what you play, and play what you enjoy. Peace, bro.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2005, 05:53 PM
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DB, Don't feel too bad. I own a Martin Backpacker (also a gift). I happen to like the guitar (I think I'm the only one.)
Try putting THAT in your signature line.

BTW, I wouldn't trade it for a 1941 D-28 straight up! Somebody try me!
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2005, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdiel
I've seen, played and heard enough about them to tell anybody who tells me that they are thinking about buying one to go almost any other route they can find.

As for when I said "We are all just prejudiced against them" apparently your sarcasm meter is in need of new batteries.

LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS all you want. I'd suggest that if anyone you care to keep as a friend asks you what beginner guitar to buy that you "LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS" about any number of other less expensive and much better guitars.


If an Esteban ever did rival a Martin as you suggest I would indeed hear it if I was in the same room with it because I feel compelled to pick them up out of morbid curiousity if nothing else.

I guess if the three edited sentences that you posted were all that I told you then...yeah I guess that is kind of shakey. But when you consider that there you can't just go to a Guitar Center or any other local store to try one out then I think that ...ok...not "everyone" if you insist on being pedantic, hates them...but almost everyone who has come in to contact with one thinks they are rubbish then yes, I think there just may be a grain of truth. Two out of two for me were crap. I've heard similar numbers from many others. (BTW..I was looking for "everyone" in my original post and can't seem to find it. )

I'm thrilled that you got the 1 in 100 Estebans that apparently has held up. All I was asking is what kind of evidence you wanted to hear to confirm that warning people off of these pieces of junk was a good general policy.
To begin with I asked some very specific questions knowing full well that , by reputation, Estaban made an inferior instrument. What I got was ranting and raging against a marketing strategy about which I know nothing.
I had assumed that My father-in -law was lucky to get one with a decent tone and playability.But, I was still curious about WHY all the prejudice. I still am. It is, after all, only a guitar..a beginner guitar at that.
One more little thing.... I REALLY don't need instructions for judging the quality of a guitar. As an experienced player, I have those tools as I'm sure you do as well.What I was looking for is some REAL information and an explanation as to why they are so dispised here.
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2005, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dthumb
What I was looking for is some REAL information and an explanation as to why they are so dispised here.
If you watch his infomercial, you'll know. The hyperbole is stretched beyond most anything I've ever heard.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:05 PM
dthumb dthumb is offline
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Wink Doesn't say that on MY headstock...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkstrum
dthumb: first, it's "EstEban"--"Stephen" in Spanish.
second: "Quorum" doesn't mean unanimous-it's a Robert's Rule defining a required majority of a consituted body enabling them to move, second, discuss and vote on a motion validly-"quorum" in many cases is a simple majority, which could be 51% vs. 49%.

In this case, there is "quorum" on Esteban guitars. The motion that they stink passes by overwhelming majority. Now--you are a bit defensive, having inherited one. That is fine, and if you like it, find it playable and can use it for a boat or beach instrument, more power to you. No one is dissing YOU. Perhaps, like many high quality instruments that vary one to another, you "inherited" a decently made one. That is certainly not the majority opinion from those who have owned or played them, including a respected luthier on this site, or reviews of them on Harmony Central (which is far from an objective site, I know-but there are MANY reviews!).

I believe MY main axe to grind with him has to do with the portrayal of this instrument as rivaling a 5k+ Martin 40 series; combine that with many who have gotton materially defective guitars, tried to return them to QVC, or wherever and gotton stonewalled, had the black "stain" on the fretboard rub off on their fingers or clothing, or had their guitars simply "explode," and his incessant dropping of Andres Segovia's name, and you can sense the tip of the iceberg. And you don't have to stay up until 3:00 a.m. to catch his infomercial; it's on all sorts of times during the programming day. He also sells CD's of himself, and plays in hotel lounges. Without his "Zorro" outfit, you'd never recognize Stephen Paul as "Esteban."

On the plus side, many here have agreed he has some chops, and can play guitar. It's just doubtful he would ever play a real "gig" with the guitar he hawks. Kevin Gallagher's suggestion to take an interested guitar novice to a music shop just seems so much more rational, don't you think? Meanwhile, enjoy what you play, and play what you enjoy. Peace, bro.
I'm not being defensive....just a bit irritated that I couldn't get a straight answer until now. Of course a luthier finds them crap and I'm sure they are but, I've never heard of them before this forum...now I think thats STRANGE!
And , the bulk of the responses had to do with marketing, not wheather or not they sound ok, what they cost, what makes them so bad..just ranting.
It would be as if you found a MArtin in an attic and had never heard one before and, for some reason it sounded awful so you assumed thats what MArtins sound like..the same ting only the opposite circumstances apply.
BTW...That quorum thing...Roberts rules apply only to a given body...I woukd never assume that this group represented Estabans' group.
Personally, I think it'll make a great boat guitar and back up life raft
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  #26  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:07 PM
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Would you mind posting your "specific" questions again. Apart from "how much are they" I'm having trouble finding them?

Let me give you some specifics. (If I seem passionate about this...I am. I have a relative duped into buying one of these and I also happen to teach marketing among other things so I am particularly offended by the way he sells his rubbish.)

Sound: Volume was very low...a very dead sounding guitar. The sound that did droop out of it was thin. No low end at all worth mentioning. If I picked it up as brand new..with the fit and finish in perfect condition along side of the Samicks and Seagulls that are also sold by my local shop I'd have strummed it about twice and put it down. $50 would be to much for it.

Fit and Finish: The original color of the fingerboard..."wood?"...was showing through the stain. The finish was gloss but very uneven. Looks like they gave it about one coat with a rag and didn't bother to touch up any uneven spots. The finish was bubbled up in places. It had dings in a few places...I'm going to give Esteban the benifit of the doubt and not blame him for those....but everywhere it was dinged the finish had chipped off as well. I will give it this much.....the frets were still stuck to the fretboard....fairly uncommon to these guitars I'm given to understand.
The "gold" was coming off of the tuners.

Hope this helps.


Anyway....I'm sorry if this got too heated or out of hand. Nothing personal at all. I just really can't stand this guy's little scam.
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  #27  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:12 PM
dthumb dthumb is offline
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Default I can appreciate that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdiel
Would you mind posting your "specific" questions again. Apart from "how much are they" I'm having trouble finding them?

Let me give you some specifics. (If I seem passionate about this...I am. I have a relative duped into buying one of these and I also happen to teach marketing among other things so I am particularly offended by the way he sells his rubbish.)

Sound: Volume was very low...a very dead sounding guitar. The sound that did droop out of it was thin. No low end at all worth mentioning. If I picked it up as brand new..with the fit and finish in perfect condition along side of the Samicks and Seagulls that are also sold by my local shop I'd have strummed it about twice and put it down. $50 would be to much for it.

Fit and Finish: The original color of the fingerboard..."wood?"...was showing through the stain. The finish was gloss but very uneven. Looks like they gave it about one coat with a rag and didn't bother to touch up any uneven spots. The finish was bubbled up in places. It had dings in a few places...I'm going to give Esteban the benifit of the doubt and not blame him for those....but everywhere it was dinged the finish had chipped off as well. I will give it this much.....the frets were still stuck to the fretboard....fairly uncommon to these guitars I'm given to understand.
The "gold" was coming off of the tuners.

Hope this helps.


Anyway....I'm sorry if this got too heated or out of hand. Nothing personal at all. I just really can't stand this guy's little scam.
But I gota tell ya, that doesn't discribe the one I got at all...funny.
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  #28  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:31 PM
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What you guys all don't seem to grasp is:

#1) Esteban makes and sells a whole bunch of cheap, poorly built guitar clones that are produced in the worst slave labor camps in Asia.

#2) His sales are so great on HSN, or QVC, that a small portion of the product is being sub-contracted through a certian "quality" shop in Nazareth, PA.

THAT'S why you'll run across a great Esteban every once in awhile.

Give the guy credit where it's due.

Look who he studied under...
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2005, 07:15 PM
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Question You sure about #2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsa
What you guys all don't seem to grasp is:

#1) Esteban makes and sells a whole bunch of cheap, poorly built guitar clones that are produced in the worst slave labor camps in Asia.

#2) His sales are so great on HSN, or QVC, that a small portion of the product is being sub-contracted through a certian "quality" shop in Nazareth, PA.

THAT'S why you'll run across a great Esteban every once in awhile.

Give the guy credit where it's due.

Look who he studied under...
Maybe that would explain why the one I have doesn't suck so bad.
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2005, 08:27 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
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Enough arguing over "bargain" guitars. Hey, how about them Blueridges?
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