Acoustic Play into interface question

Mischief · #1 03-20-2016, 04:26 PM

Howdy, I have been searching for this answer online and in the manual but can't find the answer.

The question is I have an acoustic play pedal and the 18i8 Focusrite interface. I am trying to figure out the pros and cons of connecting the play pedal into the line inputs vs the mic inputs. The multi input will run line in if used with a TRS and use Mic in if using an XLR.
There are extra line inputs in the rear so if the acoustic play pedal can plug into the line in without any disadvantage then it will free up the 4 mic pre in the front.

What are the pros and cons? I would just experiment but I would have to buy two new cables to do that and before I do I would like to know if it's worth it or at least if there is no real compromise doing it that way.

While I'm at it here's another question since the mic pre are phantom power paired on the Focusrite if I had the play pedal plugged into one of the mic inputs and the other required phantom (therefore the play pedal would be receiving phantom power) would this cause the pedal any issues having the phantom coming back to the pedal?

I hope that makes sense.

BTW I know the normal way to record is dry but I use the pedal for no post edit recoding to critique myself and work on my sound and styling.

Cheers
Shawnee

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ChuckS · #2 03-21-2016, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mischief

Howdy, I have been searching for this answer online and in the manual but can't find the answer.

The question is I have an acoustic play pedal and the 18i8 Focusrite interface. I am trying to figure out the pros and cons of connecting the play pedal into the line inputs vs the mic inputs. The multi input will run line in if used with a TRS and use Mic in if using an XLR.
There are extra line inputs in the rear so if the acoustic play pedal can plug into the line in without any disadvantage then it will free up the 4 mic pre in the front.

What are the pros and cons? I would just experiment but I would have to buy two new cables to do that and before I do I would like to know if it's worth it or at least if there is no real compromise doing it that way.

While I'm at it here's another question since the mic pre are phantom power paired on the Focusrite if I had the play pedal plugged into one of the mic inputs and the other required phantom (therefore the play pedal would be receiving phantom power) would this cause the pedal any issues having the phantom coming back to the pedal?

I hope that makes sense.

BTW I know the normal way to record is dry but I use the pedal for no post edit recoding to critique myself and work on my sound and styling.

Cheers
Shawnee

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't have an 18i8 but I looked at the manual a bit; I used to have the 6i6. Seems you have several questions:
Regarding phantom power, it looks like there are separate phantom power switches for input pairs 1&2 and input pairs 3&4. So, if you were using mic inputs you could apply phantom power to a pair of inputs and not apply it to the other pair. Also, the manual seems to indicate that phamton is only applied to the mic inputs, not the line inputs, of the combo connector. So if you are connecting a line level with a TRS connector it sounds like phantom would not be applied to it even if switched on.

As far as where to plug in your pedal, I'd say it depends on the pedal's output characteristics. Could you tell us the make/model and give the output specs (levels, impedance, connector, balanced/unbalanced). That would provide an indication of where it should be plugged in. If it is a line level signal, using one of the 18i8's front panel combo inputs would provide a fine tuning, using the 18i8's gain knob, to gain up/down the pedal's output level to match the 18i8's input range.

Without knowing anything about the pedal, I'd say you wouldn't want it plugged into the mic input. I'd say plug it into one of the rear line inputs if the pedal has an output level adjustment, or plug it into the front panel line input (phantom power switched off) if the pedal doesn't have an output level adjustment.

KevWind · #3 03-21-2016, 08:14 AM

First what is an acoustic play pedal ? Do you mean a TC Helicon Play Acoustic floor FX box ?

If so then you should be fine plugging it into the rear 1/4 " inputs of the Focusrite

I do not see any disadvantage in doing so

As far as the phantom power question I am guessing it would not be a big deal BUT if the pedal is the TC unit, best to simply call or e-mail them and ask.
Or if your only plugging the two items 1 mic and the pedal why not just plug the mic into one side of 1-2 pair with phantom power and plug the pedal into the into one side of the 3-4 pair with no phantom power ?

Gutch · #4 03-21-2016, 01:57 PM

The Play Acoustic only has XLR outputs, so you would have to use impedance transformers to go to the 1/4" hi-z connectors on your audio interface.

Personally, I like to have as straight a line to the recorder as possible. If you are going to be multi-tracking anyway, why inject the possibility for sound quality degradation by going to the high impedance input?

Mischief · #5 03-21-2016, 01:58 PM

Sorry I was not clear. Yes the pedal is a TC Helicon Play Acoustic floor FX.

At times I may want to use the box while using other powered mic configurations. If there is no difference plugging the Play pedal into the line input, that would allow me to free up two valuable front Mic channels when needed. If that's the case I can just get dedicated XLR-TRS cables to attach my pedal to the interface. If that's not the case I would have no other need for that configuration of cable.

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ChuckS · #6 03-21-2016, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mischief

Sorry I was not clear. Yes the pedal is a TC Helicon Play Acoustic floor FX.

At times I may want to use the box while using other powered mic configurations. If there is no difference plugging the Play pedal into the line input, that would allow me to free up two valuable front Mic channels when needed. If that's the case I can just get dedicated XLR-TRS cables to attach my pedal to the interface. If that's not the case I would have no other need for that configuration of cable.

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That pedal has line level outputs (+2dBu), so you want to connect to the 18i8 line level inputs (not the microphone inputs).

You could connect to either the TRS line inputs on the back or the front panel of your 18i8; so you'll need XLR to TRS cables. On your 18i8 the line inputs on the back panel are around +8dBu at 0dBFS, so that should work well enough. If you used the front panel line inputs you could adjust the 18i8 gain to set the pedals actual output levels to right where you want them to be in the 18i8 input range; but if you have uses for the 18i8 mic inputs using the rear line inputs should work well enough.

Mischief · #7 03-21-2016, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS

That pedal has line level outputs (+2dBu), so you want to connect to the 18i8 line level inputs (not the microphone inputs).

You could connect to either the TRS line inputs on the back or the front panel of your 18i8; so you'll need XLR to TRS cables. On your 18i8 the line inputs on the back panel are around +8dBu at 0dBFS, so that should work well enough. If you used the front panel line inputs you could adjust the 18i8 gain to set the pedals actual output levels to right where you want them to be in the 18i8 input range; but if you have uses for the 18i8 mic inputs using the rear line inputs should work well enough.

Thanks that's a huge help.
I have just been inputting the pedal into the mic inputs on my mixing desk and the mic pre on the interface. I thought it was working fine (actually I thought that was the preferable way. What is the negative effect plugging into the mic input vs line?

Thanks again
Shawnee

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ChuckS · #8 03-21-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mischief

Thanks that's a huge help.
I have just been inputting the pedal into the mic inputs on my mixing desk and the mic pre on the interface. I thought it was working fine (actually I thought that was the preferable way. What is the negative effect plugging into the mic input vs line?

Thanks again
Shawnee

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you connect the pedal's line output to a mic input you might overdrive the input, depending. It looks like it would be fine on the 18i8 as it handles up to +9dBu on the mic input (make sure the gain pot is turned down). Other mic inputs may or may not be able to handle the +2dBu from the pedal.

Another consideration is the input impedance on a mic input vs a line input. The line input impedance would be higher, and designed for connection to the line output of the feeding device. However, for the output impedance of your pedal and the mic input impedance of your 18i8, you're fine.

Mischief · #9 03-21-2016, 03:17 PM

Thanks a heap Chuck.
I'll go pick up some new cables.

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MarvinLee · #10 04-22-2016, 09:47 PM

You do realize, of course, that you can simply run USB out of your Play Acoustic straight to you DAW.... right?

Mischief · #11 04-23-2016, 05:03 AM

Yes I do that when I just record DI guitar and one mic. I'm just getting things sorted to run whatever option I would
like to depending on the circumstance.

As it turns out TC helicon responded saying it comes out at mic level. This advice came a while after I heard back here I have hooked it to mic level in my Behringer mixer without incident.

I have been distracted playing with new mikes etc. but I'll get some new cables soon (I want to build custom length with compact 90 ends). I'll try it at line level as well. As that would work better for me if it does.

Thanks again for all the info.

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MarkF_48 · #12 04-23-2016, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mischief

As it turns out TC helicon responded saying it comes out at mic level. This advice came a while after I heard back here I have hooked it to mic level in my Behringer mixer without incident.

For the Voicelive Play the XLR Out is specced at: XLR Output 0dBFS: +2 dBu ( http://www.tc-helicon.com/en/product...ve-play/specs/ )

Normal Line level for pro gear is considered to be +4 dBu

Mic level is typically lower at around -30dBu depending on the mic.

I use an XLR to TRS cable connected to a Line input of either a mixer or PA with my VLP GTX. Just easier and I don't have to worry about phantom power being fed back to the VLP and I don't have to adjust the output of the VLP to a lower value to accommodate a mic input, some of which can be over driven by a design where the level attenuation (volume) follows a first stage of gain.

Mischief · #13 04-23-2016, 07:47 AM

Okay thanks I do plan to buy cables to input into the line inputs in the back as the spec shows it should work as does your example. I have used it as mic level and it works totally fine too on both mixer and my Focusrite interface 18i8 at least I have not noticed and issues yet.

Btw here's the response from TC

Hi Shawnee,

Thank you for contacting TC Helicon Support.

Sorry to hear about the issue you are having with your Play Acoustic

The output of the play acoustic is actually mic level, like a DI box, so if you connect this into a line input there just may not be enough gain into the line channel from the play acoustic.

There is no problem in connecting the play acoustic to a phantom powered mixer. I would just be sure to connect everything before turning phantom on at the mixer, or turning on the mixer if there is no separate phantom switch.

Don't hesitate to let me know if you have any questions.

Best Regards,

John

Shawnee, Sent

Hi I have the Play Acoustic FX pedal and just bought a Scarlet Focusrite interface. At times I would like to use them together.
To free up the valuable mic preamps in the front I wondered if I can go from the Play pedal outputs into the Balanced TRS line inputs on the Focusrite?

If it's possible would their be a disadvantage inputting the pedal into a balanced line level vs mic input?

One other question. Is their any ill effect to the play acoustic pedal if it received phantom power from the mixer or interface it's connected to?

Very kind regards
Shawnee

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burkeingraffia · #14 05-08-2023, 04:07 PM

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread.

I have a TCH Play Acoustic that I am sending to a Samson rs110a powered PA speaker.

Using the mic insert on the speaker I got a ton of unpleasant hiss.

Using the line insert is no hiss but very low volume, fine for practice and a small room but that's about it.

I'd love to find a balance between the two. Maybe a powered mixer between the two to boost the signal?

Any thoughts? Maybe the speaker is just a piece of junk. Thanks in advance.