K&K Pure Mini + Lyric: Why I went back!

[Petty1818]

I wish I could try this set up in a loud environment. I feel like I could probably control the feedback but at the same time I can see it being a nightmare. I did a show on the weekend with a Fishman Matrix pickup and even with the monitors at a lower volume, I was getting feedback.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I wish I could try this set up in a loud environment. I feel like I could probably control the feedback but at the same time I can see it being a nightmare. I did a show on the weekend with a Fishman Matrix pickup and even with the monitors at a lower volume, I was getting feedback.

The Lyric is a mic, but unlike ANY mic you ever used. It is VERY feedback resistant... Moreso than the anthem, and on par with the K&K... Maybe even better.

And for that matter, feedback is often a function of amp placement. I play on a loud stage but hardly ever have problems because if how I position my amp and monitor.

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by rschultz

The Lyric is a mic, but unlike ANY mic you ever used. It is VERY feedback resistant... Moreso than the anthem, and on par with the K&K... Maybe even better.

And for that matter, feedback is often a function of amp placement. I play on a loud stage but hardly ever have problems because if how I position my amp and monitor.

Ryan, in my opinion, you are correct in many ways with what you're saying in this post. I offer another bit of information for your consideration: what is in front of your amp or monitor also has an affect on the feedback induced by your guitar pickup. For example, if your on a big stage with no obstructions for a good distance, feedback might not be a problem. However, with that same amp and monitor position in a smaller venue with the back wall closer, things might change.

But it seems you have the ability to make your adjustments as necessary, and that really is the true skill many are after.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by chrono

Thanks for this informative thread.
Is it possible to wire the K&K pure mini with the Lyric in a mono setup?
If so, are there any extra components that will be required?

Also, is it possible to use the Anthem mixer/preamp with the Lyric and the Pure Mini pickup instead? So you get the blend control that was originally on the Anthem.

Thanks in advance!

I don't think the Anthem and the Lyric preamp can be interchanged, the mics are different and preamped differently. I see no way to take the Lyric and the K&K out mono. Need to use the second channel on the Lyric, or two jacks? It is pretty easy to take the K&K out on the second channel of the Lyric and use a dual preamp to mix,

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by joeguam

Ryan, in my opinion, you are correct in many ways with what you're saying in this post. I offer another bit of information for your consideration: what is in front of your amp or monitor also has an affect on the feedback induced by your guitar pickup. For example, if your on a big stage with no obstructions for a good distance, feedback might not be a problem. However, with that same amp and monitor position in a smaller venue with the back wall closer, things might change.

But it seems you have the ability to make your adjustments as necessary, and that really is the true skill many are after.

Yes, you are right. I have the flexibility in my environment to do that. I realize that isn't always the case. I purposely put my amp behind me and to my left, using my body to shield the guitar. Then making sure my vocal monitor isn't too hot or close to my guitar. But my point was simply that when people talk about guitars feeding back, they often focus on the signal(s) and neglect to adjust the speakers location and direction.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I wish I could try this set up in a loud environment. I feel like I could probably control the feedback but at the same time I can see it being a nightmare. I did a show on the weekend with a Fishman Matrix pickup and even with the monitors at a lower volume, I was getting feedback.

Is your Matrix the Infinity UST, or Blend with the mic... or some other combination?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rschultz

Is your Matrix the Infinity UST, or Blend with the mic... or some other combination?

It's the Matrix blend with the mic. However, I never use the mic because it's fairly useless and the gooseneck is not stable at all, which is why I want to pull this system out ASAP. I was only getting feedback in the monitors which is easy enough to control. I just find that it made me question whether a SBT+Lyric set up would be ideal or not.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

It's the Matrix blend with the mic. However, I never use the mic because it's fairly useless and the gooseneck is not stable at all, which is why I want to pull this system out ASAP. I was only getting feedback in the monitors which is easy enough to control. I just find that it made me question whether a SBT+Lyric set up would be ideal or not.

So you're saying you get feedback with the UST by itself? Wow, UST's are usually pretty bulletproof to feedback. If so, the solution is definitely to increase the distance to the monitors and rotate them or reposition them so you don't get feedback.

Is it direct guitar feedback... as in the guitar sound from the monitor is feeding the guitar and causing the feedback to occur? Or is it other sounds (vocals, other instruments) that are causing the guitar to resonate? In either case, repositioning the monitor should help a LOT.

Back to the SBT/Lyric, it generally is NOT as feedback resistant as a UST. So I'd encourage you to figure out a solution with the Matrix (no mic) first before moving on to the SBT/Lyric setup.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding or oversimplifying the situation... I realize these things are complicated!

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

It's the Matrix blend with the mic. However, I never use the mic because it's fairly useless and the gooseneck is not stable at all, which is why I want to pull this system out ASAP.

Separate note about the gooseneck. I haven't tried the Matrix Blend, but I have used the K&K Silverbullet goodeneck along with the K&K and I agree. The whole gooseneck thing is a pain. That's one of the reasons why the Lyric or Anthem is so revolutionary... that along with their proprietary built-in EQ curves. You stick the mic on the bridge plate and forget about it... you don't see it and you don't have to adjust it's placement EVER.

Simplest thing for you is to buy a Lyric and wire in the Matrix UST to the ring and mix it yourself. You already have the UST, no need to buy the K&K for a first shot at this.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rschultz

Separate note about the gooseneck. I haven't tried the Matrix Blend, but I have used the K&K Silverbullet goodeneck along with the K&K and I agree. The whole gooseneck thing is a pain. That's one of the reasons why the Lyric or Anthem is so revolutionary... that along with their proprietary built-in EQ curves. You stick the mic on the bridge plate and forget about it... you don't see it and you don't have to adjust it's placement EVER.

Simplest thing for you is to buy a Lyric and wire in the Matrix UST to the ring and mix it yourself. You already have the UST, no need to buy the K&K for a first shot at this.

I wonder if the K&K gooseneck is as bad as the Fishman one that I have? If I move mine into place it almost immediately lets go and falls further into the guitar. I know Fishman re-released this pickup with a gooseneck that looks far more sturdy but mine is just crap.

Also, can I wire the active Fishman Matrix to the Lyric?

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Also, can I wire the active Fishman Matrix to the Lyric?

Oh, forgot the Matrix was active. No, the 2nd source into the Lyric must be passive. You could call Fishman and see if it works passively... most UST's will. The active part just boosts the signal and applies some EQ.

[LTC C]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Here is a pic of my Lyric surgery. As you said you need to solder a wire to the Lyric board's second channel, and it is very tight through the cover. I used a multi strand wire from another pickup, that I shortened. I Just attached a radio shack 1/8 female plug so I could go mag or K&K, etc.

If I don't have a remnant chord from another pickup laying around, what spec should I ask for at Radio Shack or look for on line to make my own in that thickness? Also, is the jack shielded?
Thanks,
Lenny

[joeguam]

Just want to express some thanks to rschultz, Doug and everyone on this thread. I've finally made the decision to yank the ES out of my Taylor 700 series and replace it with a pure mini + lyric system.

I'm going to try my hand at integrating the K&K ultra preamp onboard with the lyric as well, summing it to mono at the Taylor ES endpin. I've started a thread in the amplification forum so I'll document my efforts.

Thanks again.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by joeguam

Just want to express some thanks to rschultz, Doug and everyone on this thread. I've finally made the decision to yank the ES out of my Taylor 700 series and replace it with a pure mini + lyric system.

I'm going to try my hand at integrating the K&K ultra preamp onboard with the lyric as well, summing it to mono at the Taylor ES endpin. I've started a thread in the amplification forum so I'll document my efforts.

Thanks again.

Please let us know how you like this set up. I am still thinking about trying it!

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Please let us know how you like this set up. I am still thinking about trying it!

Will do, I plan to record the following samples:
- Condenser mic aimed at 14th fret only
- Taylor ES with flat EQ
- Lyric only
- K&K only
- K&K + Lyric blended to the best sound possible

We'll see how it goes.