So i got an AudioTechnica AT831b mic ...

[xuoham]

... and though it sounds good, i am a bit disappointed with the feedback behaviour: it doesn't take much volume before its starts screaming, in a room that's not very reflective. I is a cardioid mic but i find that it picks up everything, on the side, behind, ...

Gonna try with more pa volume and less gain on the mic, but for a first try i am a bit disappointed as i wanted to use it live, to complement my Yamaha LJ6ARE's piezo PU. I am starting to wonder how it will do live, even behind the mains in a nice venue, with nice monitors.

Anybody successful ?

Thanks

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by xuoham

... and though it sounds good, i am a bit disappointed with the feedback behaviour: it doesn't take much volume before its starts screaming, in a room that's not very reflective. I is a cardioid mic but i find that it picks up everything, on the side, behind, ...

Gonna try with more pa volume and less gain on the mic, but for a first try i am a bit disappointed as i wanted to use it live, to complement my Yamaha LJ6ARE's piezo PU. I am starting to wonder how it will do live, even behind the mains in a nice venue, with nice monitors.

Anybody successful ?

Thanks

What is this "room" you describe? A small room in a house? (Room dimensions? (LxWxH)

What mixer or pre-amp are you using?

Why would you try "more PA volume"? Turning down the mic's input sensitivity at the console(input gain) will help to some degree, as long as you're not to close to the noise threshold.

Running a PA too loud for a given room(room saturation), will surely induce feedback.

[xuoham]

It's a 4X5 meter japanese room with tatami on the floor and concrete walls but with curtains wood furniture, etc ... not very reflective actually.
Using with either a K&K dual mono preamp or a Zoom A3 with its anti feedback system but even though it kills three frequencies, other frequencies start to howl.
Using either EV ZLX15p or a small Roland CM30 monitor.

Oh, "room saturation" uh ? Yes, i guess i pushed the ZLX beyond the room capacity probably, but getting feedback at moderate level with this small CM-30 monitor surprised me.
Let's say i was twice louder than my guitar, which is loud.
Since it's a jumbo i put the mic a bit further away to avoid boom but i guess this is not optimal and i should eq out some 100hz-ish even more and get the mic closer.

Anyway, thanks for the help, it makes me think more straight.
But regardless, i was a bit surprised that this mic picks up sounds around, more than i thought.

So, yes, the most sensible action would be to test it for real in a bigger room, or club or studio.

I appreciate the help, thanks !

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by xuoham

It's a 4X5 meter japanese room with tatami on the floor and concrete walls but with curtains wood furniture, etc ... not very reflective actually.
Using with either a K&K dual mono preamp or a Zoom A3 with its anti feedback system but even though it kills three frequencies, other frequencies start to howl.
Using either EV ZLX15p or a small Roland CM30 monitor.

Oh, "room saturation" uh ? Yes, i guess i pushed the ZLX beyond the room capacity probably, but getting feedback at moderate level with this small CM-30 monitor surprised me.
Let's say i was twice louder than my guitar, which is loud.
Since it's a jumbo i put the mic a bit further away to avoid boom but i guess this is not optimal and i should eq out some 100hz-ish even more and get the mic closer.

Anyway, thanks for the help, it makes me think more straight.
But regardless, i was a bit surprised that this mic picks up sounds around, more than i thought.

So, yes, the most sensible action would be to test it for real in a bigger room, or club or studio.

I appreciate the help, thanks !

As you've discovered, there's no point in trying to play that loudly (or loudly at all) with a mic'd guitar in a room that small. If you're practicing and need to hear effects, use headphones. If you're trying to test a system for live use, find a larger room, as you suggest at the end of your post.

Louis

[el_kabong]

I have one of these and have used it on a variety of instruments, sometimes, with mixed results. Here are a couple of questions, thoughts, and some tweaks that may help you.

- I assume that you are using the mic's instrument clip at the sound hole? You can test positioning the mic differently and notice that your feedback is (likely to be) quite frequency dependent, i.e. may be picking up more bass frequencies, partly due to placement. You can adjust the placement and/or roll off more low end at the mixer. In most cases, you can probably (or should) expect to roll off quite a lot at 80 Hz and below.

- Although a cardiod mic, placed against the body of the guitar, this mic will tend to essentially behave like an Omni, that's just the nature of proximity. If you are still getting a bunch of non-guitar (off-axis) input, you're gain is almost surely set too high.

- At some point, I'd like to try to rig a gooseneck setup for this mic, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Like you, I tend to use this mic to augment another source (usually a piezo or magnetic pickup), with both being blended at the mixer. In some situations where feedback is more of a problem, you simply use less mic. Even a little bit mixed in will help add some natural "air" to your sound. It is, again, quite common, to expect to get that assistance at higher frequencies, which - coincidentally - may be where the tonal characteristics of the pickup may be less desirable. So, I would recommend experimenting with the frequency blend as well as the levels.

Hope that helps.

[xuoham]

Originally Posted by lschwart

If you're trying to test a system for live use, find a larger room, as you suggest at the end of your post.

Thank you Louis, yes, i got it, that was a test for gigs, otherwise i sure use headphones a lot at home if i want a lush reverb or fx.
Or i play loud but with sound board transducers, less prone to feedback.
First time i use a mic besides recording, i guess i just have to make new habits.

Anyway, after further testing, i realize that just a bit of mike makes a big difference when used with a UST.
With transducers too, but the JJB transducers i have on my other gigging guitar already sound natural and are much easier with feedback. I guess i'll stick to that as main pu for gigs, and according the situation, dose a little bit of microphone.

But is sure sounds very good, to the point i want to try it for recording, to second my other condenser mike.

[xuoham]

Originally Posted by el_kabong

I have one of these and have used it on a variety of instruments, sometimes, with mixed results. Here are a couple of questions, thoughts, and some tweaks that may help you.

- I assume that you are using the mic's instrument clip at the sound hole? You can test positioning the mic differently and notice that your feedback is (likely to be) quite frequency dependent, i.e. may be picking up more bass frequencies, partly due to placement. You can adjust the placement and/or roll off more low end at the mixer. In most cases, you can probably (or should) expect to roll off quite a lot at 80 Hz and below.

- Although a cardiod mic, placed against the body of the guitar, this mic will tend to essentially behave like an Omni, that's just the nature of proximity. If you are still getting a bunch of non-guitar (off-axis) input, you're gain is almost surely set too high.

- At some point, I'd like to try to rig a gooseneck setup for this mic, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Like you, I tend to use this mic to augment another source (usually a piezo or magnetic pickup), with both being blended at the mixer. In some situations where feedback is more of a problem, you simply use less mic. Even a little bit mixed in will help add some natural "air" to your sound. It is, again, quite common, to expect to get that assistance at higher frequencies, which - coincidentally - may be where the tonal characteristics of the pickup may be less desirable. So, I would recommend experimenting with the frequency blend as well as the levels.

Hope that helps.

Thanks el_kabong, precious advice !

Our posts crossed and i just wrote about some of the topics you mention, especially the clip provided especially for a guitar's soundhole and the equation "closer=more boom".

I also tried a cheap gooseneck method with a cheap disassembled led lamp clip for reading books in the dark, but the mic caught too much resonance, it seems, thought moving it to a sweet spot cure this to some extent.

[xuoham]

Oh, i forgot to mention that most of the feedback i got was rather at the upper frequencies, mids and high mids.

Oh, #2 , el_kabong, great Robert Fripp quote btw !

[el_kabong]

Originally Posted by xuoham

Oh, i forgot to mention that most of the feedback i got was rather at the upper frequencies, mids and high mids.

Oh, #2 , el_kabong, great Robert Fripp quote btw !

Was that happening when using the sound hole clip? Interesting. Best I can suggest would be more of what I noted above...try dropping the gain and/or cutting the offending frequencies. Could be more about the room than the guitar in this case.

Regarding the gooseneck, yes....as with any mic placement, there is likely to be a sweet spot that will work best for your situation (guitar, playing style, room acoustics, other input sources, etc.). Don't assume that any particular "traditional placement" will always be the right answer. Most folks rely on a 14th fret placement, but there are lots of others you can test and, of course, in a more typical cardioid application, the direction of the placement will influence things a lot.

Here's my own Fripp quote - Some folks can play "out of the box", Fripp may not even have a box.

Good luck.