Strumming Question

[Dloz]

I had the same problem when I started. I just kept playing and it eventually figured itself out. I use a fender medium pick & always have. So my advice is to keep playing, you’ll get through it. I primarily strum & always have

[Creek]

You guys rock, thank you.

[Dogma]

Bluegrass flat pickers use minimum 1.0 thickness picks. And, while this may or may not be relevant to what you are playing, it does represent a group and style of playing who/that focuses heavily on strumming! Additionally, beveled is, if not better, at least helpful. I am a Bluechip convert but many good flat pick users' opinions vary!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Creek

. . . I have been very disciplined to work just on strumming least 15-20 mins/day with no wandering off and playing songs, etc. I will play more than that but will dedicate that time to strumming only.

To learn to strum, play songs. Three artists whose strumming is worth YouTubing are Keith Richards, Bob Dylan, and Bob Weir. They know how to give it feeling and expression.

Originally Posted by Creek

. . . My up strums are still bad but definitely improving. I am getting a metronome (or drum machine) to work my rhythm but my technique is still not good and I’ve searched forums and youtube but still missing it.

Use a metronome. A drum machine is waste of your money, time, and attention.

Originally Posted by Creek

I think most of what I need is structured repetition but to get a decent sounding up strum I have to loosen my grip on the pick to the point it rotates around or slides down my fingers. I am using the most conventional/popular way to hold pick (so I think I’ve got that part) but maybe more about how much pressure to keep on pick and maybe in the way I am rotating (or not) my wrist/hand on the way back up.

There are two ways to hold a flatpick: either like a pencil, with your thumb on one side and your fore and middle fingers on the other, or between thumb and forefinger with all four fingers curled back almost into a fist. Give both a fair hearing, and use that feels right.

Originally Posted by Creek

(Additionally, I can strum and sound pretty decent with my bare thumb, but that’s not what I want)

Although flatpicks are perfectly good tools, I don't use them. I don't like the clicky scraping sound they make. I don't use my thumb, either, because it's hard to put much feeling or authority into it that way. I strum with the nails of my fore, middle, and ring fingers — a lazy or aggressive strum, depending on the song.

So you might try that, just to see if it works for you.

I also often pluck down with my thumb and pluck up with my fore, middle, and ring fingers. That's especially good for muting.

Originally Posted by Creek

I know you’re supposed to keep a fairly relaxed grip on pick

It depends on the song. Practice songs!

Another reason I stopped using flatpicks is that I drop them. So I either play barefingered or with fingerpicks. (To strum, I usually take off the fingerpicks.)

Originally Posted by Creek

but do you change the pressure on up vs down strokes?

Yes. It's good to vary it. That's how to put feeling into it.

Just concentrate on how you're sounding. You'll learn how to emphasize your strums with practice.

Originally Posted by Creek

Also, can anyone point me to some good instruction - I’ve seen tons on how to hold pick, wrist movement and several patterns to practice but haven’t seen much of all of the mechanics involved put together.

Watch artists you like. They're putting it together before your very eyes. Now that we have YouTube, it's as easy as that.

Originally Posted by Creek

Seems like once you know how to hold the pick and go UUUDUDU, everything else should just fall into place .

Nothing falls into place. You have to put it into place. The three keys to guitar progress: woodshed, woodshed, woodshed.

Let us know how it goes!

[rllink]

I just want to add, some strum patterns work better for a particular song than others. Sometimes when a strum pattern isn't working for me, it's not me that is the problem, it is the strum pattern itself.

[Taildrager]

I ammore than likely the last one that should give advice and the same in that I am the last one you should take it from . But something that helped me with pick holding are the Fender mojos there like a condom for the pick . A friend of mine who has a damaged thumb because of an interaction with a table saw cut the tunge out of an old pair of shoes and glued some to both sides of the grip part of his picks flesh side out . Another thing that I just discovered is a YouTube channel titled Joanne Cooper play along . Its original songs by the original artists with a background photo on the screen with the word and the chords scrolling. Most have a chart in the upper left corner withe chords and finger placement. The number of songs seems to be endless. Also if a capo is required it says that and on where to place it . Its been a huge help for me because I have been warned many times that may be able to play songs by yourself but not in time with others . This puts that to rest . The biggest plus is no comintary the music starts and plays until its over .I just let it go to the next song its like playing a set with strangers you just jump in if you can or wait till the next song jor move forward . Its great

[Jkruger]

Thanks for sharing Joanne Cooper's YouTube channel.
Very helpful.

[Silly Moustache]

Creek, one or more one hour face to face lessons would probably resolve these issues for you and lead you on to developing your own style that could enable you to accompany almost anything.

I tend to mentor as much, if not more than teach.

Just sayin'

[Taildrager]

Originally Posted by Jkruger

Thanks for sharing Joanne Cooper's YouTube channel.
Very helpful.

Glade you found it to helpful . I just found it accidentally . It has been a big deal for me being self taught and not anyone close to practice with .

[jwing]

Recommendations that I believe are fundamental: The first concerns the mechanics of Up-Down: Know and understand that strumming is always (well, 99.99%) Down-Up, no matter how somebody has written out a strumming pattern. JonPR already covered this in Reply #11.

Understand this but don't obsess on it: on downstrokes, the tip of the pick drags behind the hand so that the tip is closer to the ceiling than are the fingers. On upstrokes, the tip of the pick drags behind the hand so that the tip is closer to the floor than are the fingers.

Extremely important (this you SHOULD obsess over): know and understand what the heck you are doing with regard to rhythm. Learn/understand how to count music beats and how strumming conveys the beat. Practice a downstrum on every beat, with nothing else until you have that absolutely dialed in. Use a metronome. Practice that at many different tempos. When you you are perfect at that, try adding upstrokes exactly halfway between two downstrokes. After you are perfect at that, then experiment with flying an occasional stroke over the strings without touching them. After you master that is when you start developing patterns for striking the strings mixed with flying over them.

BTW, your example of UUUDUDU implies five beats (or seven-beats?). If you've grown up listening to music in the USA, it's likely that you have never heard a 5-beat rhythm nor a 7-beat rhythm. It would be next to impossible to apply a 5-beat strum pattern or a 7-beat pattern to a 3- or 4- beat tune and have it sound good.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jwing

Recommendations that I believe are fundamental: The first concerns the mechanics of Up-Down: Know and understand that strumming is always (well, 99.99%) Down-Up, no matter how somebody has written out a strumming pattern. JonPR already covered this in Reply #11.

Thanks, but...

Originally Posted by jwing

Understand this but don't obsess on it: on downstrokes, the tip of the pick drags behind the hand so that the tip is closer to the ceiling than are the fingers. On upstrokes, the tip of the pick drags behind the hand so that the tip is closer to the floor than are the fingers.

... this is misleading. To angle the pick deliberately in that way would mean rotating your wrist either way alternately. You never (or extremely rarely) see players doing this!

There might be a very slight change in angle, but essentially the pick remains at more or less the same angle all the time - 90 degrees to the strings. It simply bends or flaps as it strums the strings. So you use a bendy pick, or hold a rigid one loosely.

Of course, it you want to use a rigid pick and hold it firmly, then you do need to rotate your wrist to angle the pick alternately as you're saying. And I might agree that for an absolute beginner, that's worth trying.
I.e., beginners tend to "brush" the strings - pointing the pick up and allowing it to drag on the way down - which means it then catches on the way up! So changing the angle in an exaggerated way (pointing down to drag up) can help to get rid of that habit.

But much better to start with a thin pick (73 at most, ideally 60 or even less), and not rotate the wrist at all - focusing more on relaxing the swing, at both elbow and wrist.

Originally Posted by jwing

Extremely important (this you SHOULD obsess over): know and understand what the heck you are doing with regard to rhythm. Learn/understand how to count music beats and how strumming conveys the beat. Practice a downstrum on every beat, with nothing else until you have that absolutely dialed in. Use a metronome. Practice that at many different tempos. When you you are perfect at that, try adding upstrokes exactly halfway between two downstrokes. After you are perfect at that, then experiment with flying an occasional stroke over the strings without touching them. After you master that is when you start developing patterns for striking the strings mixed with flying over them.

Totally agree with all this!

[Eastbound]

Learn strumming pattern of some difficult strumming songs like pinball wizard and swallows tail jig. Start slow and work on incrementally getting faster, Do this like 10-15mins a day. First do a slow version that you can play clean. Then do some fast versions that may get sloppy, but push yourself. Use metronome if you can. Overtime you will develop the pick grip/tension you need and be able to strum faster and more cleanly

[tbirdman]

I would get the thinnest pick you can find. Eventually you can move up to heavier picks.

I've been taught that you need to strum with you full forearm like a pendulum from the elbow and don't just play with your wrist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXL1bG_ao3c

[jeanray1113]

Another YouTube teacher who has a lot of good stuff. https://youtu.be/fFGvT4hg9Ws?si=p9j1KDjZoDXtaAnS

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

I would get the thinnest pick you can find. Eventually you can move up to heavier picks.

I've been taught that you need to strum with you full forearm like a pendulum from the elbow and don't just play with your wrist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXL1bG_ao3c

Exactly right - in both cases!