LR Baggs Lyric?

[throbert]

Originally Posted by cary

NEW LYRIC USER HERE:

I'm a long-time K&K user, and I've been very happy with that pickup, but I can tell you that I absolutely LOVE the Lyric. While the K&K is a great workhorse pickup, the Lyric is even better IMHO.

There is at least one caveat though -- in my experience the Lyric needs more EQ tweaking that the K&K to reach its full potential.

I honestly wasn't happy with the tone of the Lyric using just the simple BASS/MID/TREBLE controls on my Schertler David. However, I could hear the potential of the pickup and decided to purchase an LR Baggs Venue to go with it, and that has made all the difference.

The problem with the Lyric is that it needs some reduction in various parts of the Mid frequency to remove some boxiness -- with the Venue I have two parametric controls for the mids, giving me much more control.

In fact, if my current installation is any indication, I'd guess that a good EQ needs to be figured into the cost of the Lyric, since it's pretty much required.

Now, all of that said, when EQ's correctly applied, the Lyric is the best sounding pickup I've ever used -- it's a Mic and it sounds like a Mic. It captures the real nuances of my playing, and it captures the true sound of my guitar (on a scale of 1-to-10 for realism, I'd say the Lyric is giving me about a 9.)

One downside to a Mic though -- particularly for those used to the K&K, like I am -- is that the Mic picks up everything, just like plopping your guitar down in front of an SM57.

I guess what I mean is that an SBT like the K&K does more compressing and smoothing out of your playing -- the Lyric, on the other hand, requires you to play better. At least that's my current take on it. Your sound will be much more dynamic with the Lyric, and less forgiving.

As far as feedback goes, I haven't had to deal with that yet, but I feel that the feedback controls on both my Schertler and my Venue should be able to handle anything I may come across in the types of venues I play.

As always, YMMV, but for me personally the Lyric has been a game changer, and I can't wait to get out there and get some gigging in with it.

I had one installed today and what you say here is also what I'm finding out as well. The Lyric requires some time, effort and tweaking for dialing out the boxiness you speak of. I really didn't like the sound of it at first but I've been trying some EQ cutting and I think I found something that would be useful in a live situation. I'm going to try it out on a gig this weekend. I still think the concept is good but perhaps they could have done a better job of the EQing that's built into the preamp. Maybe the Baggs tech guy would care to comment on that. It's installed in Goodall Koa Grand Concert and I'm running it in my living room into a Baggs PARA EQ and to my Allen & Heath Powered board into 2 wedge monitors. I still haven't tried it through a full PA yet but that will come this weekend in a big and boomy room.

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by Cellomangler

I just installed the Lyric in an Epiphone Masterbilt EF-500RCCE. (orchestra sized) This guitar already had a LR Baggs Element pre-installed. I did not want to remove it because the action was perfect and it got there because I had done some work in the saddle slot with clay to level the string output and I set the action pretty low. I also like the Element. So I drilled another end pin hole just diagonal and to the rear of the existing hole and added the Lyric preamp, the lyric volume control next to the Element's in the soundhole and then attached both to the same 9 volt (lithium) battery. So...
As I was very used to the Element and my various ways of optimizing its signal, I wasn't sure at first what to make of the Lyric. It's output is MUCH lower than the Element. This makes sense as it is obviously EQ'ed to death with a dramatic slope down toward the lows. But the lows are there... and it's not noisy when cranked. But there is some boxiness. Now I just put it in the recommended spot and frankly, I can't really imagine an internal mic that wouldn't exhibit some boxiness. With a graphic EQ, I'm sure I could make it sound fantastic. It's definitely got the mic'ed sound. But - when I combine it with the Element... it's much better, IMHO. Then I tried my usual bi-amping technique and sent the Element output to a bass amp and the Lyric to an acoustic amp. Voila ! Now we are getting somewhere. Sounds like I'm promoting the Anthem here -and maybe it is a better choice for some guitars. But I'm not saying the Lyric doesn't sound great or won't sound great with certain guitars... but I do believe all these internal systems, more than with external mics, require custom EQ and processing... and then they can sound great. I still need to try a recording with the pickups on separate tracks, but I'm sure I'll still be using an external preamp with a bit of tweaking.

That's what i was afraid of.Haven't bought the Lyric yet but am interested. With the Anthem you have more control over both the blend AND you can separate the signal. I just don't want to rout out another nice guitar for the UST placement which can be finicky, different string output levels etc. I'd rather go for a UST already in the system when i buy a guitar.

[Petty1818]

I installed the Lyric for fun and was pleasantly surprised. I don't spend a ton of time eq'ing it so maybe I just got lucky? There are times when the tone is a but "boxy" but I actually think that's a result or older strings. It's the first pickup that I have tried where new strings make a huge difference on the tone.

The downside? My Lyric is noisy! When I plug it into my PA or powered speaker with the volume down, there's no hiss at all. As soon as I increase the volume on the Lyric to full, a fairly prominent hiss is introduced. It almost sounds as though I am hitting a boost pedal. It's unfortunate since I quite like the pickup.

[buzzardwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The downside? My Lyric is noisy! When I plug it into my PA or powered speaker with the volume down, there's no hiss at all. As soon as I increase the volume on the Lyric to full, a fairly prominent hiss is introduced. It almost sounds as though I am hitting a boost pedal. It's unfortunate since I quite like the pickup.

Hmm... I'm thinking that this is not normal. I have Lyric pickups in two very different guitars. Their noise floor is so low that I can't hear them through a PA or through a guitar amp.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

Hmm... I'm thinking that this is not normal. I have Lyric pickups in two very different guitars. Their noise floor is so low that I can't hear them through a PA or through a guitar amp.

I agree, something is probably wrong. I will record a sample and send it to Lr Baggs and see what they have to say.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I agree, something is probably wrong. I will record a sample and send it to Lr Baggs and see what they have to say.

I'd ask them to exchange your current Lyric for a new one so you don't have to wonder if anything is wrong. (I wonder if the latest run of Lyrics may have been tweaked a bit since the first run?).

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by ballynally

That's what i was afraid of.Haven't bought the Lyric yet but am interested. With the Anthem you have more control over both the blend AND you can separate the signal. I just don't want to rout out another nice guitar for the UST placement which can be finicky, different string output levels etc. I'd rather go for a UST already in the system when i buy a guitar.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but the Anthem outputs a mono signal, unless there's a new version I haven't heard about. The blending happens onboard, and you cannot access the separate signals.

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but the Anthem outputs a mono signal, unless there's a new version I haven't heard about. The blending happens onboard, and you cannot access the separate signals.

Sorry, I wasnt aware of that. I remember a post where someone said he'd send the two outputs to two different amps. That made me interested.
If it's mono there's none of that. Still, i do like the concept and i think you'd be able to get a decent mix.

My Fishman Rare Earth has a stereo output and i do send the 2 signals to different amps. Unfortunelaty it has a small condender mic on a goose that is not very usable and i have to turn all the bass down. The mag side is just ok. Obviously a mic inside a guitar suffers greatly from the over exposed boomy frequencies. That's why i thought the PZM style Lyric would be the ticket. Looks like Baggs have pre-EQed it with the pre amp. Than the rest you'd have to do yourself with another pre amp. So you're adjusting adjusted frequencies, all to get rid of stuff. Makes me think the concept doesn't work the way it is intended. When i buy an amp for instance, i want it to be almost right from the start then tweak it to my needs. My Schertler does that. As the Lyric still is a microphonic device it will carry some boxiness, or 'roundness' if you like, no matter what. Some will like it some not. As some said it probably works better in a solo setting. I was a bit put off by poster Cary (see above) who has uninstalled his Lyric 'cause he couldnt get rid of the 'honk'. He went for a condenser mic in the end with his bluegrass band.

So, as many already know, a mix of 2 different sources seems the best, be it UST w Mag or something like the Anthem.
I'm just not going for it unless it is already installed from the factory. There are too many pitfalls for me..

[Petty1818]

For those interested, I just played my first show with the Lyric and I have come to the conclusion that it will be removed this week. At this particular show, I was lucky enough to have an amazing sound man with a great sound system. It was really the perfect place to really try the Lyric. The pickup delivered but it's just not right for me and there are two main reasons.

First off, when I first turned up the volume and started getting signal through my monitors, I noticed how bright and mid range heavy my tone was. Earlier in the day I had actually decreased the the presence control as well so this was a bit surprising. I had to almost turn the treble control on my Radial completely off. I also spent at least ten minutes playing with the two mid range controls before I got a usable sound although I wasn't completely happy with it.

Secondly, it's very thin sounding. It's odd because I have watched videos from the crowd perspective and my guitar actually sounds very, very good and really natural. However, on stage the guitar just had no body. It makes me realize how important that enhanced bass is. It just sounds like my guitar went from medium gauge strings to super, super custom light strings.

I know some will comment on the monitors being the issue but they were 15" Yorkville monitors that were very high end. The sound man also gave me exactly the same tone in my monitors as the crowd was hearing out front.

[se7ent7]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

...The pickup delivered but it's just not right for me and there are two main reasons.

First off, when I first turned up the volume and started getting signal through my monitors, I noticed how bright and mid range heavy my tone was. Earlier in the day I had actually decreased the the presence control as well so this was a bit surprising. I had to almost turn the treble control on my Radial completely off. I also spent at least ten minutes playing with the two mid range controls before I got a usable sound although I wasn't completely happy with it.

Secondly, it's very thin sounding. It's odd because I have watched videos from the crowd perspective and my guitar actually sounds very, very good and really natural. However, on stage the guitar just had no body. It makes me realize how important that enhanced bass is. It just sounds like my guitar went from medium gauge strings to super, super custom light strings.

Before you do that, please consider adding a second source for some body / low end, and perhaps a bit of directness.

I'm a Lyric user, and have the same issues with it as you're describing. I decided to add the guitar's factory pickup fishman UST to the second ring of the Lyric and a run a stereo cable to my blender DI. I literally have the best acoustic tone I've heard with my own ears.

A K&K or even cheaper JJB SBT pickup would also work and probably sound even better than a UST as a 2nd source.
I have no crosstalk (which some will warn you about). I use a Proel 1/4" TRS to two 1/4" TS plugs, and it's sort of a double cable moulded into one (so the signals are only really together at the plugs). If you want to avoid that issue completely and/or like magnetic tone, that's also a great second source option to try (Dimarzio Angel is a great cheap pseudo Sunset by the way). There's also the Baggs M1 passive and M80 in passive mode to try.

You might now ask, why not get the Anthem? Well I think the Lyric's tru-mic part is much better than the one on the Anthem, and you have more control with a system like mine (and the freedom to try a magnetic or SBT rather than a UST). It's head and shoulders better sounding than the Anthem in my friend's Furch/Stonebridge guitar.

Please consider this, its one of the best pickup systems you can put in a guitar in this time I believe.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by se7ent7

Before you do that, please consider adding a second source for some body / low end, and perhaps a bit of directness.

I'm a Lyric user, and have the same issues with it as you're describing. I decided to add the guitar's factory pickup fishman UST to the second ring of the Lyric and a run a stereo cable to my blender DI. I literally have the best acoustic tone I've heard with my own ears.

A K&K or even cheaper JJB SBT pickup would also work and probably sound even better than a UST as a 2nd source.
I have no crosstalk (which some will warn you about). I use a Proel 1/4" TRS to two 1/4" TS plugs, and it's sort of a double cable moulded into one (so the signals are only really together at the plugs). If you want to avoid that issue completely and/or like magnetic tone, that's also a great second source option to try (Dimarzio Angel is a great cheap pseudo Sunset by the way). There's also the Baggs M1 passive and M80 in passive mode to try.

You might now ask, why not get the Anthem? Well I think the Lyric's tru-mic part is much better than the one on the Anthem, and you have more control with a system like mine (and the freedom to try a magnetic or SBT rather than a UST). It's head and shoulders better sounding than the Anthem in my friend's Furch/Stonebridge guitar.

Please consider this, its one of the best pickup systems you can put in a guitar in this time I believe.

I have definitely thought about that. I listened to a recording out front from my show on Saturday and my acoustic sounded like it was mic'd, it was pretty incredible. I just hate the thin tone in my monitors.

I am just wondering how you used the Fishman with the Lyric? I assume you have a passive Fishman UST because wouldn't two active sources not work together? I have considered trying the Barbera soloist and adding it to the Lyric since it's passive, I am just worried about spending close to $400.00 on the Barbera only to then starting soldering it to the lyric.

Here's my one problem with the lyric that I can't seem to solve; it has some noise to it. I contacted Lr Baggs and the person I spoke to just told me that all he could hear was the Lyric being turned up but it was hard to get recorded in a video. It's as if the Lyric doubles the normal hiss from my speakers but makes it sound a bit hollow. It's very, very hard to explain. I just have no idea what would be causing it.

[bnjp]

In my experience, the Anthem SL has the best low end of the Tru-mic series. My understanding of the reason is that most of the low end comes from the undersaddle Element and the mic carries the balance of the tones. Even when the presence on the mic is turned all the way up, the lows still come from the Element. Anthem SL is definitely my vote.

You do have the option of adding a passive source like the K&K Pure, a passive undersaddle pup, M1 passive, or M80 in passive mode to the lyric. You'll need to use a TRS cable and it will need to be mixed outboard, but there is an input on the circuit board of the Lyric for a 2nd source to be added.

I can't really speak to the noise though...mine doesn't do that. I have a Lyric in a guild M20. I wonder if there is something wrong or if the placement of the mic could be better.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by bnjp

In my experience, the Anthem SL has the best low end of the Tru-mic series. My understanding of the reason is that most of the low end comes from the undersaddle Element and the mic carries the balance of the tones. Even when the presence on the mic is turned all the way up, the lows still come from the Element. Anthem SL is definitely my vote.

You do have the option of adding a passive source like the K&K Pure, a passive undersaddle pup, M1 passive, or M80 in passive mode to the lyric. You'll need to use a TRS cable and it will need to be mixed outboard, but there is an input on the circuit board of the Lyric for a 2nd source to be added.

I can't really speak to the noise though...mine doesn't do that. I have a Lyric in a guild M20. I wonder if there is something wrong or if the placement of the mic could be better.

Yes, the Lyric and Anthem are two different designs. The Element UST gives the enhanced bass and the tru-mic gives the high where as the Lyric is supposed to do it all. Many people have discussed the lyric on here and it doesn't lack bass, it just doesn't give that enhanced bass that we are all used to. I don't like the Anthem since you can hear too much of the Element tone which I have never liked.

[Vancebo]

I just recently installed an Anthem followed by a DTAR dual Source in a beater guitar just to compare the two and I found that I liked the DTAR better because I thought the UST was more natural than the Element on the Anthem. Both were good though.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I just recently installed an Anthem followed by a DTAR dual Source in a beater guitar just to compare the two and I found that I liked the DTAR better because I thought the UST was more natural than the Element on the Anthem. Both were good though.

I have been listening to different videos from my show on Saturday and honestly, the tone out front is the best I have ever heard. My guitar sounds 100% natural and is sitting perfectly in the mix. It's almost scary hearing my guitar only louder.

Still, there's no bass in the monitors and from my perspective it sounds and feels terrible. It might sound awesome out front with a $20,000 speaker system but I can see it being terrible with my own PA system. I am very much considering pairing it with a second source because the potential is there. I was going to try the Barbera soloist so I might get it and wire it to the Lyric.