Improving the LR Baggs Lyric sound

[Cuki79]

Another AGF member I know had the tonedexter and was not convinced because he prefered to have the piezo grit. He subsequently went to use Fishman Aura.
Since I have the amulet I have been wondering about that. The larger than life pickup tone vs mic tone

[Cuki79]

If you like larger than life tone, you may prefer to have the opportunity to blend. Amulet and Dazzo users have already great tone.

Doug Young, will you write a tonedexter review in acoustic guitar magazine?

I think Doug will answer that question. If he gives up the dpa mic and grace design Félix for a tonedexter... then you know

[Cuki79]

Doug's main concern about my IRs were the ringings. Those fade naturally when you reduce the IRs to 2048 pts as those pedals do.

[KLB]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Ok the idea is to compute the impulse response IR(t) that would bring the pickup signal p(t) to the mic signal m(t).

in time domain, m(t)=p(t) x IR(t). Where "x" denotes the convolution product that the pedal or convolution reverb plugin will perform. A convolution product in time domain, is equivalent to a multiplication in frequency domain.
So in frequency domain fft[m]=fft[p].fft[IR]
Here "." Denotes the multiplication and fft, the fast Fourier transform operation.

There is nothing patented here. Both Tonedexter and Fishman patents explain that based on a scientific publication published prior to their patent.

So fft[IR]=fft[m]/fft[pic]

Where " / " denotes the division.

So IR(t)=ifft[fft[IR]]

If you get there and blend, you have the Fishman aura.

Cuki79,

Thanks much! I was thinking you were normalizing out the pickup response by your relationship. Essentially, Rtout = IRmic/IRpu*Rtpu, where Rt means real time. Then you are left with mostly the IRmic response. I think that is the gist of your work.

I appreciate your work and very much appreciate your response. There are likely advantages to using your technique over the ToneDexter in that by using an audio interface and a DAW, one can easily create an IR that is made up of sounds from several mics processed through pre-amps of your choice. I use the ART PAC tube/compression pre-amps that can really warm up the mic's response. The Logidy EPSI IR convolver is currently unavailable until September so I am going to play around with your technique using a software IR convolver within my DAW. It won't provide a real time solution for performing, but it will allow me to come up to speed with your technique, thanks again for your contributions to the rest of us! Ken

[Cuki79]

Hi everyone,

I am facing an ethic problem. I started this IR project before Tonedexter was available or their patent published... Recently, I have been helping KLB to reproduce the basic IR process that was published by scientists before Fishman and Audiosprokets made their own.

I have no idea of what are KLB motivations. I don t say they are wrong.

But I know how hard it is to run a young company like Audiosprokets with a product like Tonedexter. I don t want to steal anyone s bread.

I would be ashamed if anyone uses my help to release free on the web a software that compete with tonedexter. Apart from legal patent issues, it would not be right.

So I will stop helping people on developing IR deconvolution. I already have given enough and the rest can be found in the scientific literature, patent, books...

If one wants to try before buying a Fishman Aura or Tonedexter pedal, I can punctually make an IR.

Cuki

[n388mm]

Cuki,

I just found this thread today and have been reading through it. Thank you for all your work, research, and detailed explanations. That's a tough ethics situation to face, but that's very gracious of you to bow out.

I'm planning on buying a Lyric today to test in my guitar as I really like the sound of it. Your first post with it blended at 67% sounded amazing. Did you end up switching to the Amulet because it is better suited for IR?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by n388mm

Cuki,

I just found this thread today and have been reading through it. Thank you for all your work, research, and detailed explanations. That's a tough ethics situation to face, but that's very gracious of you to bow out.

I'm planning on buying a Lyric today to test in my guitar as I really like the sound of it. Your first post with it blended at 67% sounded amazing. Did you end up switching to the Amulet because it is better suited for IR?

I did not switch to the Amulet. My initial plan was to buy a HD-28 to complement the d-18 and I did a great job.

I got an Amulet because I have worked for weeks on Doug Young's samples and I liked his tone.

For now D-18 lyric + IR is more mic like than hd-28 amulet + IR. I can make IR comparable to Tonedexter standard process but the new firmware with slot 22 as demoed to me by SpruceTop privately leave me speechless... It is not perfect but there are qualities in the tone I can't nail... They really did a

Cuki

[n388mm]

Oh, I gotcha. Sorry if I didn't read that in one of the earlier posts.

That's good to hear then! My Lyric should be arriving shortly and I'm stoked to try it out. It's going into a 00 Martin, so kinda worried that I may have to fiddle with the positioning due to the body size, but we'll see.

I'll probably invest in a Tonedexter at some point, but probably wait until Christmas or so lol

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I did not switch to the Amulet. My initial plan was to buy a HD-28 to complement the d-18 and I did a great job.

I got an Amulet because I have worked for weeks on Doug Young's samples and I liked his tone.

For now D-18 lyric + IR is more mic like than hd-28 amulet + IR. I can make IR comparable to Tonedexter standard process but the new firmware with slot 22 as demoed to me by SpruceTop privately leave me speechless... It is not perfect but there are qualities in the tone I can't nail... They really did a

Cuki

Cuki,

I'll work on more Slot 22 ToneDexter WaveMaps and try to record them better as the one I sent you was lacking in Volume. I'll try using two or three different mic positions with the Shure SM81, and for the first time, I'll use an Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina with the ToneDexter. Coming this weekend.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Cuki,

I'll work on more Slot 22 ToneDexter WaveMaps and try to record them better as the one I sent you was lacking in Volume. I'll try using two or three different mic positions with the Shure SM81, and for the first time, I'll use an Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina with the ToneDexter. Coming this weekend.

Great news Ken,

Please show some samples as soon as you can!!

I failed my new Amulet install Somehow the Bass pickup was badly glued and the volume difference was huge.

I start to get to hear what Gary says... The way you clamp and pressure the pickup against the bridge plate is actually more important than the position. On my Treble pickup I got this time more "air" and "resonance" in STD position...

Another 12h to figure it out.

Some one should build a robot to adjust pressure while the strings are set on and use it with UV curing glue.

PS: I had more warmer position on Lyric's position 3 but less headroom. There is a good reason why Baggs puts a low-cut and 2 compressors on the lows and low midrange... It is also a way to leave some headroom for the other frequencies...
Cuki