Cordoba Fusion 12 vs 14 tonal differences?

VLJ · #1 10-26-2016, 11:18 AM

I'm new to acoustics and have decided I want a nylon cutaway crossover. I have my choices narrowed down to the Yamaha NTX1200R (a distant third in the running, primarily due to its thinner body, Sitka top, plastic nut and bridge, and too-narrow string spacing), a Cordoba Fusion 12, or a Fusion 14. I'm naturally drawn to the 14 because I play electrics and appreciate the additional upper-fret access. On the flipside, I read on one of these websites that the 14 doesn't sound as good or respond as well as the 12. This opinion was expressed by someone who worked for Cordoba.

I called Cordoba yesterday, and the gentleman with whom I spoke was very friendly and informative, and he said that he and most of the others there at the Cordoba headquarters in SoCal feel there is next-to-no difference in the sound between the 12 and 14.

Does anyone here have any firsthand knowledge of this topic? For instance, if there is in fact a tonal difference, what sort of difference is it? Is one bassier than the other? Brighter? More (or fewer) mids?

Besides the possible tonal difference, the other reason I''m considering a 12 over the 14 is Cordoba doesn't offer the 14 with a cedar top, not unless I go with the Jet model, which is an all-black guitar. I can, however, get a cedar-top 12 with rosewood back and sides, with the Orchestra CE.

Anyway, my apologies for the longwinded post. The gist of it is, simply, what (if any) tonal differences are there between the Cordoba Fusion 12 and 14 models?

Red_Label · #2 10-26-2016, 12:09 PM

Despite having owned ten Cordoba instruments, I've never owned any of the Fusion models. I have played them however... and I don't remember noting any difference between those models. I would be surprised if most players could hear a substantial difference between them. Personally... I would pick the one that you like best (or can get), buy it, and just play and enjoy it without worrying about any hair-splitting subtle differences between them.

dkstott · #3 10-26-2016, 12:10 PM

I spent quite a bit of time checking out the Fusions. I never noticed any tonal differences between the Cordoba 12 or 14 fret models. Ultimately, I settled on the GK Pro Negra model. Simply because it had a fuller unplugged acoustic sound that I preferred.

FWIW- I tried out the Yamaha's and ruled them out immediately due to poor unplugged sound on every model that I tried. GC put new strings on them for me and it didn't improve them... However, plugged into an amp, they were great guitars

Dave

Red_Label · #4 10-26-2016, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkstott

I spent quite a bit of time checking out the Fusions. I never noticed any tonal differences between the Cordoba 12 or 14 fret models. Ultimately, I settled on the GK Pro Negra model. Simply because it had a fuller unplugged acoustic sound that I preferred.

FWIW- I tried out the Yamaha's and ruled them out immediately due to poor unplugged sound on every model that I tried. GC put new strings on them for me and it didn't improve them... However, plugged into an amp, they were great guitars

Dave

Totally agree. I'm a big fan of Yamaha instruments and used to really want an NTX series guitar. But after comparing them several times with the Cordobas at the shop... there was no contest in terms of unplugged sound. The Cordobas were just so much more lively, resonant, and responsive. The Yamahas sounded like a wet blanket in comparison.

VLJ · #5 10-26-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkstott

I spent quite a bit of time checking out the Fusions. I never noticed any tonal differences between the Cordoba 12 or 14 fret models. Ultimately, I settled on the GK Pro Negra model. Simply because it had a fuller unplugged acoustic sound that I preferred.

You found the slimmer GK Pro Negra to have a fuller sound than the deeper-body Fusions?

Interesting. I had pretty much ruled out the GKs precisely because I thought the Fusions and their thicker bodies would sound bigger/fuller unplugged.

Quote:

FWIW- I tried out the Yamaha's and ruled them out immediately due to poor unplugged sound on every model that I tried. GC put new strings on them for me and it didn't improve them... However, plugged into an amp, they were great guitars

Dave

I came to the same conclusion. Despite sharing similar body depths, the GK Studio Negra sounded much fuller unplugged than the NTX700. The problem is, no one in my area carries the Fusions so all I have to go by are the specs.

dkstott · #6 10-26-2016, 05:18 PM

My original purchase was a GK Studio Cypress. It was an awesome guitar. But I wanted something fuller in sound.

Which led me to checking out the fusion series as well as the GK Pro line.

For my tastes, the GK Pro Negra hit every mark that I needed in a nylon string guitar. The solid wood EIR sides and backs brought out some nice tones.

I've had mine for more than a year now.. It's gone with me to weekly gatherings, guitar workshops, open mic's and it very comfortable couch playing.

GHS · #7 10-26-2016, 05:31 PM

In the Cordoba Fusion line I believe the strings ( Savarez Alliance Corum high tension) contribute to the tonal quality. The strings run about 20 dollars a set but are worth it. As for the Fusion 12/14 I could not really hear too much difference. They were both in the store so maybe new strings may help? If anything a little more low end to the 12 but again could be the strings. Since I do not play plugged in I passed on the Yamaha series, (14 fret) guitars. For someone who does though, I have to hand it to them. Yamaha's do sound great plugged in. Dont cross them off your list if you play out.

VLJ · #8 10-26-2016, 05:58 PM

In the foreseeable future I will only play unplugged, so a guitar's natural unplugged sound is all that matters to me.

I just found a place that had a Cordoba GK Studio Natural (spruce top, cypress back and sides), a Fusion 12 Maple, and a Yamaha NTX700. The Yamaha played just fine while producing almost no acoustic sound! It was maybe half as loud and punchy as the GK Studio, which was the slightest touch louder and livelier than the Fusion 12 Maple.

So, dkstott was correct, the GK Studio does sound a bit fuller and livelier than the deeper-body Fusion 12. Neat trick, that. The difference isn't enormous, though. It's nothing like the difference between those two and the Yamaha.

The problem is, I prefer the Fusion's 48mm nut and slimmer neck to the GK's wider 50mm nut and broader neck. On the other hand, I think I prefer the GK's more comfortable 3.5" body to the Fusion's slightly bulkier 3.9" body.

Bottom line, I'm getting all turned around here!

So, okay, here's what I want...

-Nylon stings
-Cutaway
-14 frets before the neck hits the body
-48mm nut
-Radiused fretboard
-Solid cedar top (second choice: spruce)
-Solid (not laminate) rosewood back and sides

Does such a guitar exist, other than the Yamaha NTX1200R? I've never played the NTX1200R. I've only played the NTX700 and NTX900, neither of which impressed me at all with their unplugged tones. I can honestly say they didn't inspire me enough to keep playing, and I fear that the NTX1200R will only be very slightly better, due to its solid rosewood back and sides; better, but not loud, punchy or lively enough to hang with the Cordobas.

Alvarez offers the AC65HCE, which has a cedar top and a 4" body, but a laminate mahogany back and sides, so it's probably no better than the Cordoba Fusion 14 Jet, which, I assume, will kill the Yamaha NTX1200R for unplugged tone.

Is there anything else out there?

Red_Label · #9 10-26-2016, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VLJ

In the foreseeable future I will only play unplugged, so a guitar's natural unplugged sound is all that matters to me.

I just found a place that had a Cordoba GK Studio Natural (spruce top, cypress back and sides), a Fusion 12 Maple, and a Yamaha NTX700. The Yamaha played just fine while producing almost no acoustic sound! It was maybe half as loud and punchy as the GK Studio, which was the slightest touch louder and livelier than the Fusion 12 Maple.

So, dkstott was correct, the GK Studio does sound a bit fuller and livelier than the deeper-body Fusion 12. Neat trick, that. The difference isn't enormous, though. It's nothing like the difference between those two and the Yamaha.

The problem is, I prefer the Fusion's 48mm nut and slimmer neck to the GK's wider 50mm nut and broader neck. On the other hand, I think I prefer the GK's more comfortable 3.5" body to the Fusion's slightly bulkier 3.9" body.

Bottom line, I'm getting all turned around here!

So, okay, here's what I want...

-Nylon stings
-Cutaway
-14 frets before the neck hits the body
-48mm nut
-Radiused fretboard
-Solid cedar top (second choice: spruce)
-Solid (not laminate) rosewood back and sides

Does such a guitar exist, other than the Yamaha NTX1200R? I've never played the NTX1200R. I've only played the NTX700 and NTX900, neither of which impressed me at all with their unplugged tones. I can honestly say they didn't inspire me enough to keep playing, and I fear that the NTX1200R will only be very slightly better, due to its solid rosewood back and sides; better, but not loud, punchy or lively enough to hang with the Cordobas.

Alvarez offers the AC65HCE, which has a cedar top and a 4" body, but a laminate mahogany back and sides, so it's probably no better than the Cordoba Fusion 14 Jet, which, I assume, will kill the Yamaha NTX1200R for unplugged tone.

Is there anything else out there?

The Breedlove crossovers? I've got a Passport N250 that I've had for years. Decent guitar, though i never play it anymore because my Cordobas sound better. In fact, after I got the Passport, I liked it enough that I sold my Bogner Ecstasy Classic boutique tube amp and bought a Breedlove Masterclass Bossa Nova crossover. Wonderful instrument. Perfect fit&finish and playability. But when I played and subsequently bought my first Cordoba (GK Studio blanca), it was all over for the Bossa Nova. I sold it and bought a GK Pro blanca and FWCE Reissue. And it's been Cordobas ever since (except for the Rodriguez MOD550FL I bought last fall, and don't care for). The Breedloves are/were great. But I prefer the snappy flamenco sound and response of my Cordobas to the mellow tone of the Breedloves.

GHS · #10 10-26-2016, 06:40 PM

I tried lots of guitars before I decided on the Cordoba. I found that I had to go way above my price point, (700 dollars) to get something "better". That may mean some better finishing of the frets, binding, etc. Tonal wise the Cordoba was hard to beat. Takamine makes excellent nylon/classical/crossover guitars but the "good" ones, for lack of a better term, start 1500-2000...and go up. I have a family member who is a classical trained musician. Learned from the best in Europe and in the US and teaches at the university level. They dont get much better than him. While he does have some really nice hand builts his go to for most of his playing is Takamine.

VLJ · #11 10-26-2016, 07:12 PM

Yep, the very first one I was looking at was the Takamine TC135SC. It's about the same price as a Cordoba GK Pro Negra, but it's 48mm-14 rather than the GK's 50mm/12. The Takamine also includes a tuner, which the Cordoba lacks.

The thing I hate about the Takamine is the strap button, which is located on the PALM SIDE of the neck heel! Why on earth would anyone ever think it a good idea to put a strap button there? Your strap will cut straight across the heel, right where your hand will be, and the button sits exactly where your palm goes when you're playing way up high on the fretboard.

It is quite literally in the last location on the heel I would choose for a strap button. The Alvarez and Yamaha do a much better job of it, placing the button on the bottom of the heel and out of the way, as it should be.

Otherwise, yep, the Takamine may come closest to what I want. Its body is deeper than the Yamaha's, too. It's the same 3.9" as the Cordoba Fusion guitars. I haven't played one, though, and no dealers in my area ever stock it, so I have no idea whether its unplugged sound is any bigger or better than the NTX1200R's, never mind the Cordobas.

Red_Label · #12 10-26-2016, 10:14 PM

I had a Takamine TC135SC and it was a wonderful instrument. I replaced it with an Alvarez Yairi CY140, which I liked even more for classical playing. But that was long ago and ever since the Cordobas came along... I don't miss them much.

dkstott · #13 10-27-2016, 07:24 AM

LOL.. I had an old Takamine C-130S that I loved for classical style playing. I sold it after I bought my Cordoba.

FWIW #1. The Savarez strings that come on their guitars are indeed high tension that really drive the sound board. But they were not kind to my left hand. The hardness became tough to fret barre chords with good sound. After many trials, I have settled on the Savarez 510AR normal tension Cantiga series strings.

FWIW #2 While the GK models have 1.96" inch wide necks, it didn't take me very long to become acclimated to it. I really like the spacing for fingerstyle playing.

Red_Label · #14 10-27-2016, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkstott

LOL.. I had an old Takamine C-130S that I loved for classical style playing. I sold it after I bought my Cordoba.

FWIW #1. The Savarez strings that come on their guitars are indeed high tension that really drive the sound board. But they were not kind to my left hand. The hardness became tough to fret barre chords with good sound. After many trials, I have settled on the Savarez 510AR normal tension Cantiga series strings.

FWIW #2 While the GK models have 1.96" inch wide necks, it didn't take me very long to become acclimated to it. I really like the spacing for fingerstyle playing.

Several years ago I was gigging only extra hard tension D'Addario Pro Arte composites. This time around, I've been using the medium tension Luthier Supreme Popular Set 20 strings and love them. I've replaced the hard and extra hard tension strings on my three main nylons with them and don't plan on going back to the high tension strings. I liked the snappy response of them, but as you mentioned... my left hand was getting too much of a workout. Add to that the fact that most flamenco guitars are built and braced lightly... and I was worried that I would see bowed braces behind the bridge if I kept using such high tension strings. I'm a lot happier with the medium sets these days.