Track with Tonedexter Character Comparison

[BluesKing777]

I did Maton with full right for character in the first post.....

And Gordon, I’m with you on putting the dual source mic inside a guitar. It does get a general ‘idea’ of the sound and a bit of air, pretty realistic but.....not. Better than straight piezo, to me anyway.

Now, a friend has the same pickup in a new dread Maton and I would love to compare that with mine through his little PA. I bet they sound like the same guitar! He is renovating his kitchen, so we are steering clear for a while.... it would probably sound ok with my Tonedexter file for my Maton. We shall see.


BluesKing777.

[Petty1818]

I apologize if this was already mentioned but is this a test of the character knob with the new blend control option or is it the standard/normal character knob function?

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I apologize if this was already mentioned but is this a test of the character knob with the new blend control option or is it the standard/normal character knob function?

I asked the same question. Bluesking has the V1.30 update. He's mentioned that a quarter turn from the left, which is about a 50/50 blend of raw pickup and WaveMap, is his favorite dial setting.

Recently I've been wondering if an excessive amount "character" might partially be a function of the guitar top's interaction with speaker sound in a live setting. I'm wondering what effect a soundhole cover (especially the thick rubber one which dampens top vibration) might have on the signal.

At last night's gig I did find myself pulling back to CH1 for one of the WaveMaps. I'm wondering if that would have been necessary with a soundhole cover.

[AeroUSA]

I feel I would blend a natural sounding pickup in (Maton, K&K etc.) but not the Matrix I’m currently using. I just realized that character 1 is actually a 50/50 blend of the full mic map and the focused map.

I am surprised that I’ve been sticking to character 1 or 2 so far.

[BluesKing777]

Yes, I am still feeling my way, too!

With the Aura Spectrum, for example, I found a great image for my J45 with standard issue Baggs Element.

So running straight to a guitar amp, the blend control only needed about 33% Aura image to get a nice sound and get rid of the Piezo quack.

Recording this same 33% image direct to a mixer and computer would show pretty bad piezo quack and you would spin the dial to at least 70% image before the recorded sound smoothed out. Why I mentioned the nice image for my J45 that I had is because with a good guitar and image ‘match’, you could run the image on full 100%. Not so if you had a guitar that was not on their list - an ‘approximate’ image could sound ‘phasey’.

Now, due to the science of launching a space shuttle..., so in other words I have no idea why, if you run the guitar image on 70%-100% to a guitar AMP, it sounded ‘microphonic’ - way too saturated....plain ‘gunky’. No good.

So my thinking is the same for Tonedexter - the 50/50 mix of character gives a nice amount of detail, no quack...but full turn of character would be like the 100% Aura image above...ok to record but too gunky for live playing.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.


BluesKing777.

[AeroUSA]

Blues I disagree. I have had to change my way of thinking that the TD is like the Aura. It is not.

I finished my gig today on the full map setting 2. It sounded great. Zero quack and very natural. It’ is on the wet side and I may use setting 0 or 1 but I don’t feel the need to blend at 45% like I used to with the Aura.

This is with a Matrix pickup, the same as I used to use with my Aura.

[BluesKing777]

All good then, Aero!

What are you using? Guitar? Amp? Mixer? PA? Solo? Group?

Settings?

I am very interested to hear more details, thanks.


BluesKing777.

[AeroUSA]

HD-28 with matrix to TD to TC Play Acousitc to QSC K8.2.

Solo gig with vocals and guitar. Looping. Strumming and fingerstyle.

I mic using the ‘up top’ position and I’m currently using the Shure condenser.

I do low cut at 80-100hz on the TC.

How about you?

[Mr. Jelly]

So when you do the ToneDexter set up with a mic the questions that come to mind are the quality / sound of the mic and does the placement of the mic effect the out come? Their sight didn't seem to get into it.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

So when you do the ToneDexter set up with a mic the questions that come to mind are the quality / sound of the mic and does the placement of the mic effect the out come? Their sight didn't seem to get into it.

Yes, early days on those type of questions as yet, but like anything...rubbish in = rubbish out!


BluesKing777.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

HD-28 with matrix to TD to TC Play Acousitc to QSC K8.2.

Solo gig with vocals and guitar. Looping. Strumming and fingerstyle.

I mic using the ‘up top’ position and I’m currently using the Shure condenser.

I do low cut at 80-100hz on the TC.

How about you?

Yes, solo fingerpicker/ vocal....

I haven’t played a gig in years, may not...went broke and got a day job. Or I wouldn’t have a houseful of guitars and stuff!

But, one of the last ones I did was a mixed result...people were saying how good it sounded out the front, but honestly, with no foldback I heard zip and was flying blind. I also had my Aura Spectrum in my Genz Benz amp sounding fantastic...but my vocals were in the PA and way louder than my amp! And very confusing and nobody helping fix it! Just dtaring back at me from the desk....

So I was very interested in gadgets to help out, Auras and Aura guitars! And when the TC Play Acoustic came out, I was at the shop first. Great idea for solo singer guitarists. But when the Boss VE8 came out, I bought that and sold the TC because I prefer the knob controls instead of menus.

Either way, compared to playing with just a mic all those years, we have everything now! You run the TC direct to a powered speaker? Cool!


BluesKing777.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

I asked the same question. Bluesking has the V1.30 update. He's mentioned that a quarter turn from the left, which is about a 50/50 blend of raw pickup and WaveMap, is his favorite dial setting.

Recently I've been wondering if an excessive amount "character" might partially be a function of the guitar top's interaction with speaker sound in a live setting. I'm wondering what effect a soundhole cover (especially the thick rubber one which dampens top vibration) might have on the signal.

At last night's gig I did find myself pulling back to CH1 for one of the WaveMaps. I'm wondering if that would have been necessary with a soundhole cover.

Thanks! This is a blend that I assume I will use most. I love the TD but the full wave map can be a bit too mic like. It goes back to that whole "my guitar only louder debate". Sometimes I want a bit of that raw pickup, especially the low end. If the TD works to add in a bit of air then I will use that.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

So when you do the ToneDexter set up with a mic the questions that come to mind are the quality / sound of the mic and does the placement of the mic effect the out come? Their sight didn't seem to get into it.

So far I am finding that quality matters to a point - a good quality mic sounds nice, yet a better one may not yield a result that is noticeably better. I don't have many super high quality recording mics. The good news is that moderate priced mics can get you a tone that sounds expensive!

Placement always affects tone, especially with condensers and an instrument like acoustic guitar. Expect to experiment, and a great position on one guitar may NOT be best for a different guitar. The cool thing is that training takes ~2 minutes, so you can try a few locations, save them, compare them, and delete the ones that don't work for you. Rinse and repeat.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks! This is a blend that I assume I will use most. I love the TD but the full wave map can be a bit too mic like. It goes back to that whole "my guitar only louder debate". Sometimes I want a bit of that raw pickup, especially the low end. If the TD works to add in a bit of air then I will use that.

It stands to reason that the nicer your raw pickup sounds (to you), the better result you will get with a 50/50 blend!
ie: The Maton with just undersaddle is almost 'bearable' and a lot of people play many types of gigs just like that...once it is up louder...etc, the speakers change the sound a fair bit. BUT ...if I was playing my old LG3 with a Thinline undersaddle only...to me, purely horrible.

Now speaking of my LG3, I was really pleased with the improvement Tonedexter made to the raw pickup sound - it is a nice sound I can run with, but it isn't particularly 'acoustic' on lead lines, better for strummy things. On single line things up the neck, it probably sounds more like an electric semi acoustic or something.

Back in the late 80s, I use to get a good sound with my resonators out front with just a Shure SM57, a match made in heaven for live resos really (main problem as usual was foldback)- the 57 cuts the top and bottom off the sound but the 'reso' remains. The same mic with a upscale acoustic is pretty awful - wood bodies need more of....dunno, everything.


(In a while, I will play/record the LG3 with a couple of lead lines on mic vs. TD. to show what I mean)



BluesKing777.

[BluesKing777]

So quick as a flash, I have already done the LG3 recording comparison!

My 1959 Gibson LG3 with Thinline undersaddle..... here we have the brutal truth of it all

Now to my ears, the mic versions have captured the acoustica. TD is like a semi acoustic or something like that. (Still way better than the undersaddle only, which is so awful I refuse to record it!)

1. Strums on LG3 recorded with Neumann KM184.

2. Strums on LG3 through Tonedexter 50/50 blend.

3. Lead lines on LG3 recorded with Neumann KM184.

4. Lead lines on LG3 through Tonedexter 50/50 blend.


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/lg3-strum-td77


BluesKing777.