Process for set up procedure?

[Silly Moustache]

If I have an issue with a set up one my guitars I normally take them to a preferred luthier/tech, but he has two of my instruments already, but I heard on Friday that he is off work, sick with flu or some such.

I have one Collings Dread that I am very fond of - very dark sitka over mahogany and it was my "bluegrass" box.

I saw the merest hint of neck bend last week, so I measured the relief - about .008" rather than .005" so I tightened the truss rod about 1/8" turn, and left it for a day or two.

Relief lowered but still "felt" high around 7-9th frets.

Action was also higher than I like at .120-.100 whereas I prefer .100-.080 (Bass &treble & 12th).

Collings did some work on the profile which was oversized and refretted it last year and set up to their standard (they said) which is 3/32" to 2/32" - i.e. .095 - ..062" with .005" relief.

I'm very picky about my action set ups, and I'm going through my Collings saddles trying to get this right and messing about with the truss rod.
The nut is OK, but I've never cut a saddle and, frankly, I don't really know what I'm doing.

So, here is my question. If commencing a set up, (assuming nut and frets are OK), what is the first thing you adjust - relief? saddle ? other?

Any advice welcome.

[Tony Done]

Assuming nut and frets are OK. I do relief first, then saddle*. I've found that 4/64 treble and 6/64 bass works well for me, quite independently of accepted standards.

* I do the saddle by calculating and marking how much I need to take off the bottom of the at each side (2 * the excess height), then hold it in the vise using the jaws as a file stop. I finish by rubbing on a flat file, to avoid taking too much off the ends. I also have a jig for getting the right curvature on the top, if need be.

[mirwa]

Nut, relief, saddle height

Steve

[dgt178]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Nut, relief, saddle height

Steve

....I typically check relief first, since a capo on the first fret eliminates the nut groove depth from the equation.....

[Truckjohn]

Very good chance its just the humidity swings that come along with fall weather...

Between the time the AC goes off and the heat goes on - it can get pretty humid inside the house dven though the temperature feels good to you. If this is the case - it will pass soon enough when the heat kicks on... And the setup will settle back down.

I think I would perhaps adjust the trussrod for neck relief and then leave the rest alone till the weather settles out...

[Tele1111]

Charles is a regular poster, who demonstrates great knowledge.
Here is a link to his set up guide.

http://www.charlestauber.com/luthier...May%202015.pdf

Mark

[Silly Moustache]

Thanks folks, nut, relief, saddle - tjhat's what I needed to know.

Humidity is not such an issue here in the UK, but we do now have the heating on and the windows closed on at least half of the days, so our normal in house 50% is now down to about 35-40%.
I don't kn ow of this s enough to affect a guitar but ...maybe.

Thanks again.

[fazool]

I also highly recommend Charles' excellent pdf writeup.

I do my setups in this order:

0) Prepare by making sure guitar is properly humidified and stabilized at humidity and temp. This may mean waiting a few days if the guitar needs to be humidified, etc.

1) Check neck angle. Adjust truss rod to be dead flat, then with strings tuned to pitch (for proper tension) check neck angle with straight edge running to the bridge. Assuming this is acceptable, continue the setup

2) Adjust saddle height to get desirable action at 12. Remember because of the angle it takes 2X as much change at the saddle to make a change at 12 (so if you want to lower action 1/32" you need to remove 1/16", etc.

3) check/adjust nut slots by checking action at fret 1.

4) Capo at 1 and fret at 15. This makes the string act as a perfect straight edge over the frets. Check relief at fret 7 and adjust truss rod to give .006"-.007"


If frets needed leveling /crowning then that would be done first so the above assume they are fine.

Anyway, that's the quickie list of my sequence.

[Silly Moustache]

Thank you Fazool. Appreciated.

[frankhond]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Thanks folks, nut, relief, saddle - tjhat's what I needed to know.

Humidity is not such an issue here in the UK, but we do now have the heating on and the windows closed on at least half of the days, so our normal in house 50% is now down to about 35-40%.
I don't kn ow of this s enough to affect a guitar but ...maybe.

Thanks again.

Most definitely this is enough to affect your guitars. But drier climate would normally cause top to shrink, pulling bridge down, lowering action. If action has risen, my first thought would be that guitar has settled in after some time and the pull of the strings naturally cause action to rise as the wood yields over the years. Nothing to worry about, if action at nut is still good, tweak the truss, then order a couple saddles from bob colosi and file away. For me that was a fun and educational experience.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I do relief befor= nut, but this is not critically important. It is absolutely critical to have the relief and the nut right before addressing the saddle. Bluegrass action is usually higher than 2 and 3, and many will glibly say 3 and 4 (32nds), but that is actually a bit high for most of the serious player (and myself) that I know. Try 2.6 x 3.8/32, which should allow all the volume and clarity available. Sorry, I don't speak metric without a translator.

[murrmac123]

Discussing action height in anything other than thousandths of an inch should be made a federal offence IMO .... no fractional millimeters ... no 32nds .... no 64ths .... and no 128ths.

[Golffishny]

If this is not a new guitar and the nut was adjusted/acceptable before, shouldn't it still be ok? Note that I have no experience here, just looking for info. Should seasonal truss rod adjustments be sufficient unless the neck shifts where a saddle adjustment is needed? Thanks.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Discussing action height in anything other than thousandths of an inch should be made a federal offence IMO .... no fractional millimeters ... no 32nds .... no 64ths .... and no 128ths.

I think discussing action height in anything other than angstroms should be made a federal offence.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Golffishny

If this is not a new guitar and the nut was adjusted/acceptable before, shouldn't it still be ok? Note that I have no experience here, just looking for info. Should seasonal truss rod adjustments be sufficient unless the neck shifts where a saddle adjustment is needed? Thanks.

As wood absorbs moisture it expands. When a wooden guitar top gains moisture, it is fixed around its edges and the only way it can expand is to "bulge", increasing its curvature. Doing so raises the bridge, and, hence, the string height, producing a higher action.

When wood desorbs moisture is shrinks. When a wooden guitar top loses moisture, it is fixed around its edges and the only way it can shrink it to flatten, the shortest distance between two points being a straight line. This decreases the curvature of the guitar top and lowers the bridge and action.

The neck doesn't usually move much in response to seasonal moisture changes. IF the bow in the neck changes seasonally, then an adjustment of the truss rod is appropriate.

If an instrument is maintained at a more or less constant moisture level throughout the year, seasonal changes are minimized. In some locations it might not be practical to maintain a constant moisture level.