Shopping for Entry Level Flamenco Guitar

[flamencoLVR]

Introduction, New Member

I have an old Martin 50's era nylon stringed classical/folk guitar that I have been playing since the 60's .I learned some flamenco and folk song guitar during the 60's from a friend who owned a "coffee house" in Lakewood, CA, was lucky enough to enjoy listening to Sabicas and Escudero playing duets in the Rincon Room at the El Poche restaurant and watched Mario's beautiful dancer wife Anita Ramos perform . El Poche was a well known restaurant in San Gabriel near the old mission. I bought the Sabicas and Escudero album in the lobby. Also attended a Sabicas concert at the Shrine Auditorium. Flamenco entertainment was quite popular in Socal back then. I was also thrilled and bought albums and tapes by Juan Serrano, Paco Pena, the Romeros and others. Wonderful to see and hear the greats on You Tube. Sorry that Paco is no longer with us.

Now at age 76, I want to buy an entry level flamenco guitar, maybe a Yamaha GCG172SF or Cordoba C7. I would like to be able to play and hear both to compare sound, etc., in person. I don't know of a guitar shop that keeps both in stock. The You Tube videos with Yamahas have rather poor sound rendition.
It seems that the Cordoba C7 may have a deeper more classical sound and the Yamaha 172 a lighter louder more flamenco sound. Would like your comparison of the two ( not fanboy stuff) Recommendations for other entry flamenco guitars are also welcome .

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by flamencoLVR

Introduction, New Member

I have an old Martin 50's era nylon stringed classical/folk guitar that I have been playing since the 60's .I learned some flamenco and folk song guitar during the 60's from a friend who owned a "coffee house" in Lakewood, CA, was lucky enough to enjoy listening to Sabicas and Escudero playing duets in the Rincon Room at the El Poche restaurant and watched Mario's beautiful dancer wife Anita Ramos perform . El Poche was a well known restaurant in San Gabriel near the old mission. I bought the Sabicas and Escudero album in the lobby. Also attended a Sabicas concert at the Shrine Auditorium. Flamenco entertainment was quite popular in Socal back then. I was also thrilled and bought albums and tapes by Juan Serrano, Paco Pena, the Romeros and others. Wonderful to see and hear the greats on You Tube. Sorry that Paco is no longer with us.

Now at age 76, I want to buy an entry level flamenco guitar, maybe a Yamaha GCG172SF or Cordoba C7. I would like to be able to play and hear both to compare sound, etc., in person. I don't know of a guitar shop that keeps both in stock. The You Tube videos with Yamahas have rather poor sound rendition.
It seems that the Cordoba C7 may have a deeper more classical sound and the Yamaha 172 a lighter louder more flamenco sound. Would like your comparison of the two ( not fanboy stuff) Recommendations for other entry flamenco guitars are also welcome .

How much do you want to spend??

Some "flamenco" guitars are simply classical guitars with different sides & back, with a thinner body. The real magic in the engine of the flamenco is the lower bridge/saddle which allows for thinner soundboard and lighter soundboard bracing.

You could try the Manuel Rodriguez flamenco guitars. If I remember correctly, their basic model starts close to $1000 Canadian. This to some people is "entry level", but to others is "expensive" or high quality.

You could search for a used hand made instrument. Although the few I have seen, although being very light and having some niceties to their sound, have had enough inherent problems that I couldn't recommend them.

[flamencoLVR]

Hi Ned,

At my age with other hobbies, I think that I might be satisfied with the Cordoba or Yamaha guitar but I don't expect a lot from either. Anything will be more inspiring to play than my tired old Martin which could use some TLC.

[smwink]

I'm selling a nice Loriente Carmen, all solid woods, spruce with cypress back/sides.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=372395

It's in excellent condition and sounds fantastic. A very punchy traditional blanca tone with just enough growl and bite. I'd keep it, but I need to pare down in advance of a move. I'm asking $950 plus shipping, which may not be "entry level" for many. You can get specs on these at the Guitar Salon International web site.

[flamencowboy]

I have the Yamaha cg172sf not a bad guitar but do yourself a fovor and try a cordoba f7.I just played one and really liked it more so than my yamaha.The F7
Is going for 650 canadian!

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by flamencoLVR

Introduction, New Member


Now at age 76, I want to buy an entry level flamenco guitar, maybe a Yamaha GCG172SF or Cordoba C7.

The cordoba f7 would fit your requirements. You didn't mention your price range. What distinguishes a flamenco guitar is lighter construction and lower action that produces a snappier, buzzier and front-forward sound compared to classical guitar construction. But you can play flamenco style on many different kinds of instruments. The Martin is probably not your best choice. Most classical guitars can be setup with lower action, so depending on your level of skill and requirements, a number of guitars might work for you. It depends both on your current level of skill and what you are looking for.

[ewh2]

Welcome to the forum,

The Yamaha CG172SF is a great guitar to start playing flamenco. If you are happy to buy second hand guitar, the earlier Yamaha CG171SF is supposed to be slightly better.

It's a little bit more but I would recommend looking for a second hand Francisco Navarro Student flamenco, which will be all solid and I think it retails brand new for $800 or so and maybe around $500 second hand perhaps. IMO there are some great guitars from Mexico which go under the radar, my first flamenco was an all solid Huipe which was less than a Yamaha.

A lot of people really rate the Cordoba GK Studio guitars, I've not tried them but they seem to be excellent guitars. Other budget guitars I've come across I liked are the Kremona guitars and Camps but I am not sure how competively priced they are in USA.

If you need any particular pointers regarding flamenco guitars I'd be happy to answer your questions via PM if needs be.

Good luck with your search.

[zhunter]

The Yamaha is a least cost "flamenco" option and will often sound better than many comparably priced options classical or otherwise. I have a CG171SF that I used to dip my toe in the water. I have better nylon strings now but still enjoy the Yamaha. The build on it is bizarrely good for a ~$300 guitar. Not bass strong but a reasonable flamenco sound.

I also have a GK Studio (2 actually a blanca and a negra). Though I play them a lot since I use them to gig, I consider these to be primarily utility instruments with the ability to plug them in the biggest value. Acoustically they don't sound any better than the Yamaha. I also have a Navarro student negra (palo escrito) model and it is a step or two above either the Yamaha or the GK. Louder, slightly warmer but still flamenco voicing. The Navarro and Cordobas did not have build quality as good as the lesser cost Yamaha.

If you get a Yamaha, you will have a relatively small investment that you can probably hang on to even if you decide to go with a nicer model. It is a good enough instrument to explore the nylon thing and find out if you really are interested. Or you can just play it and end the search there. I'd recommend the Navarro if you want a fuller experience. Definitely more sound for the money. But almost 3 times the cost. You can get a lot of miles out of the Yamaha.

hunter

[flamencoLVR]

I'm going to try to find examples of Cordoba F7 and a Yamaha CG172SF to compare. I have been playing "faux" flamenco for many years but want to get into proper right and left hand techniques. I have read a lot about variable quality control in F7's and more consistent QC in Yamaha's. I have learned that nylon string guitar players are always re-tuning and replacing strings between pieces. Now I'm aware that most flamenco guitars are set up with a little higher action to keep buzz in the acceptable range and many need lowering action to please serious flamenco players. These "fora" are a great source of information. I get and share lot of RC model plane info on the RC Groups forums. Thanks!!

[smwink]

Originally Posted by flamencoLVR

I'm going to try to find examples of Cordoba F7 and a Yamaha CG172SF to compare. I have been playing "faux" flamenco for many years but want to get into proper right and left hand techniques. I have read a lot about variable quality control in F7's and more consistent QC in Yamaha's. I have learned that nylon string guitar players are always re-tuning and replacing strings between pieces. Now I'm aware that most flamenco guitars are set up with a little higher action to keep buzz in the acceptable range and many need lowering action to please serious flamenco players. These "fora" are a great source of information. I get and share lot of RC model plane info on the RC Groups forums. Thanks!!

Hmm--not sure about some of this. I play classical guitar almost exclusively, and I can say I've never replaced a string between pieces, nor have I ever seen that done in any venue. Retuning happens if a piece uses drop D or some other scordatura, and there are always the finer tuning adjustments that must be made as the strings settle in.
In general, flamenco guitars will have lower action than a classical guitar. I say "in general" because it really depends. Maybe you mean that entry-level flamenco guitars have higher action than a serious player would like? This may be the case--some amount of fret "sizzle" is expected and even desired by many flamenco players, but for a newcomer it may seem like poor setup if you come across this in a store.

[flamencoLVR]

FYI, I put down deposit at local Sam Ash store so they could order both the Yamaha and Cordoba guitars for me to try. I can get my deposit back if I don't want either one. Most stores don't keep both in stock. I did play a C7, looked great, nice sound but had much higher action than my old Martin 00-18G. Will probably need new guitar action adjusted.