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  #1  
Old 04-03-2015, 01:07 PM
TinyTinaTwangs TinyTinaTwangs is offline
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Smile Buying a classical guitar in Spain

I'm a retired music teacher. I played classical guitar for a year or so during my high school years. I had to give up the guitar as I was playing 3 instruments and studying for exams.
Now I am retired, I want to learn the classical guitar again.

I have been reading reviews and forums and am interested in the Cordoba C7! Which is about the right price for me.

I am currently in Spain for the next four weeks and am keen to go on a tour of a Spanish guitar maker's. I am staying very close to Gata de Gorgos in the Costa Blanca. Here there is the Francisco Bros. factory. The B40 and the B50 would be affordable. There is also the Joan Cashimira factory. Their "130" would be stretching my budget but it seems to be an equivalent of the others I've mentioned.

I would benefit from a narrowish neck. Although I could try them for comfort, I'd have to get a guitarist to play them for me.

When I shop, I am usually very indecisive if I am presented with too many options. So, before I get totally mixed up when shopping for my new guitar, does anyone have any comments about how the guitars I have mentioned stack up against each other?

I am a newbee to forums.
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:43 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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I'm not familiar with either of the companies you're considering here, so I can't do anything but throw another company into the mix - Alhambra's factory is just up the road from you in Muro d'Alcoi. This is a manufacturer with a good reputation and some excellent instruments probably within your budget. I think you could get a 4p, 5p, 6p, or 7c in your price range, and a 7p might be just outside your budget. Having said all that, in my view, at this price range, you're best off getting the individual instruments you're considering and actually inspecting them personally - there are likely to be variations in finish and some of the details within a given model line, so you'll want to look for those little details (bubbles in the lacquer around the headstock, variations in the wood grain of the top, finish and fretwork on the neck, etc.) to find the instrument that's best for you. Good luck, sounds like a fun experience checking out the factories!
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:53 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyTinaTwangs View Post
I'm a retired music teacher. I played classical guitar for a year or so during my high school years. I had to give up the guitar as I was playing 3 instruments and studying for exams.
Now I am retired, I want to learn the classical guitar again.

I have been reading reviews and forums and am interested in the Cordoba C7! Which is about the right price for me.

I am currently in Spain for the next four weeks and am keen to go on a tour of a Spanish guitar maker's. I am staying very close to Gata de Gorgos in the Costa Blanca. Here there is the Francisco Bros. factory. The B40 and the B50 would be affordable. There is also the Joan Cashimira factory. Their "130" would be stretching my budget but it seems to be an equivalent of the others I've mentioned.

I would benefit from a narrowish neck. Although I could try them for comfort, I'd have to get a guitarist to play them for me.

When I shop, I am usually very indecisive if I am presented with too many options. So, before I get totally mixed up when shopping for my new guitar, does anyone have any comments about how the guitars I have mentioned stack up against each other?

I am a newbee to forums.
Trust your ear and trust your feel. The best is that you try as many as you can, and you'll get to learn more about the small variations in body and neck shapes, and sound.
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  #4  
Old 04-03-2015, 02:19 PM
rgregg48 rgregg48 is offline
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Stay away from the Valencia stuff.
You have been warned.
Rick
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2015, 03:44 AM
TinyTinaTwangs TinyTinaTwangs is offline
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Question Buying a classical guitar in Spain

rgregg48
As I'm in Valencia it seems a good time to explore guitar factories. Please elaborate on your warning, "stay away from the Valencia stuff".
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Old 04-04-2015, 01:30 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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By all means check out the factories. As I said, I don't know the brands you've mentioned, but Alhambra is just up the road from there. And advice like "stay away from the Valencia stuff" probably does need a bit of elaboration. Does this mean that all instruments produced in the region of Valencia are garbage, or just the ones within the city limits? Or does it just mean the guitars speak with an almost incomprehensible accent, the way certain Valencianos do? Again, for what it's worth, Alhambra makes some really fantastic instruments, and, if you're nervous about cryptic acoustic guitar warnings, they have international reps around the world to make sure you can take full advantage of their warranty.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2015, 04:50 PM
TinyTinaTwangs TinyTinaTwangs is offline
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Default Buying a Classical Guitar in Spain

[When words fail, music speaks.
– Hans Christian Anderson]

Thanks for your input, Dosland.
I've read scores of relevant threads on Classical group and have been really busy building up a paper database of pros and cons for my short list.

I have e-mailed Francisco Bros. in Gatos de Gorgos and will be checking out their B40, B50 and B70 on Tuesday. They are expecting me. The factory is only a half hour drive from where I am staying. Interestingly, they have opened up distribution in the USA:
Texas Music Lab
Jack Buras
2129 West Parker Road, Ste 301
Plano, TX 75023

and are looking to distribute to other countries.

The next day I shall be driving 90 minutes to Muro de Alcoy to visit the Alhambra factory. here, I hope to try the 5P, the 5P Señorita and the 7C.

After researching into the Cordoba C7 and C9 I am very interested BUT have some reservations. Cordoba seem to have only one distributor in Spain and that is in the Balearic Islands and only one distributor in England (London). Yes, I am English, but I live 380 miles from London. I note that this Forum seems to have mainly American members and maybe that is why the Cordoba guitars are getting such good reviews?

I would want a guitar that is well-recognised in UK/Spain for possible resale in future years. I already have a valuable oboe that I have owned since 1978 and I have not been able to sell it because Noblet stopped making them 35 years ago!

At least I will have increased my knowledge by the end of these visits, even if I haven't made my decision.

Last edited by TinyTinaTwangs; 04-04-2015 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Added a quote
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:50 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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I played a few instruments here and there - Spain, Portugal, and the US, mainly - before buying my 7C. Best instrument in the world at the price I got in 2008 - under 400 Euros. I wasn't at all concerned with resale value, but after a few years with it, I'm pretty sure the brand is sufficiently well-regarded in Europe that I'd have no trouble getting rid of it. But I'd never be able to replace it for anything like what I paid, so I'll never sell it.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2015, 02:24 PM
TinyTinaTwangs TinyTinaTwangs is offline
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Question Lots of research done. Closer to a decision.

O.K. Been really busy reading recent and old messages on the forum.
Last week I visited both of the Luthiers in Gata de Gorgos, Alicante, Spain. The first, Joan Cashimira. Jose Andreas runs the 100 year-old family business along with his two sisters. I was so lucky to visit when it was Easter week. As the 5 employees were not around, Jose spent 3 hours showing me his range of guitars and walked me round the workshop explaining every aspect of production and the job done at everybworkbench and the materials used. I was very impressed by the knowledge and experience gathered over 3 generations of Luthiers.
Within my price-range, the guitar I fell for was the Model 133 (which is not in his catalogue).He had 2 of these, each for less than Cordoba C7 would cost. He was trying out the Zincote before producing concert models of Zincote. A stunning looker with a solid Canadian Cedar top. Back and sides laminate Ziricote. Back and inside matching. Neck Honduras Cedar & ebony inlay. Fingerboard ebony, Profile Rosewood & bone nuts. I currently only play a few chords and a few simple melodies but I loved its feel, sound and its stunning appearance. Jose speaks some English and I speak some Spanish, so any questions were answered thoroughly.
A few days later I visited Francisco Bros. Only Spanish was spoken by the 3 family members working there. I was shown their B70 and B40 models and given a chance to try them out. The B70 has a solid Canadian Cedar top, solid Indian Rosewood back and sides, Ebony fingerboard, cedar neck with ebony inlay, Indian Rosewood Bridge and gold-coloured nuts. The B40 has a laminated Indian Rosewood back . The solid Cedar top and Solid Indian Rosewood are described as 2 calidad (2nd quality).
I think my choice is between the B70 and the Cashimira 133. Does anyone have any advice/ opinions/ experiences/ cautionary tales to offer me?
Although I am not yet a guitarist, I am a musician and want to learn on an instrument that will be a joy to play.
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:56 PM
lfoo6952 lfoo6952 is offline
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Since you said you loved the sound, feel, and appearance of the 133 model, I would go with that one.

Best of luck in your search.
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  #11  
Old 04-14-2015, 08:01 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyTinaTwangs View Post
Although I am not yet a guitarist, I am a musician and want to learn on an instrument that will be a joy to play.
Considering this, I'd recommend you take the guitar to a quality luthier/tech who understands classical guitars well, and get it set up for student action.

A brief explanation:

Most concert classical guitarists play with action (measured above the 12th fret) near 3.5mm high e and 4.5mm low e. Students and amateurs, or guitarists who are steel string or electric players that also own a classical guitar, more often use lower action.

I'd recommend about 2.75-3.00 high E and 3.75-4.00 mm low E action for starting.

Also, the NUT SLOTS will NEED TO BE VERIFIED! Most guitars other than high quality hand-made guitars will have nut slots that are not cut low enough. By high quality, you can generally imagine about $5,000 (CDN/US) and above.

And, you may wish to check that the frets are levelled properly to avoid buzzing on certain notes on the fingerboard.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:51 AM
dosland dosland is offline
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I'm not familiar with either of these manufacturers as I mentioned before, but in your position I'd go for the all-solid B70. The ziricote 133 is probably a fantastic instrument, but if the luthier is just experimenting with the wood before he starts making concert instruments out of something similar, that might end up being an issue - maybe six months from now the wood misbehaves because of some minor procedure that he has since adopted with all such instruments. With the laminate back and sides, you are probably safe whichever way you go, but in your shoes I'd go with the model that has had a bit more time to have the manufacturing kinks worked out. You still have to go with the instrument you like the most, so that's my uninformed perspective. As a caveat, I don't much care how an instrument looks, so long as it sounds good and feels really responsive when pressed up against me and played - sure, it's bad technique, but nobody's going to be buying tickets to see me in the concert hall ever, so I'll do what I want with my guitar
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2015, 02:22 AM
TinyTinaTwangs TinyTinaTwangs is offline
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Default In the nick of time

Thanks for that, Dosland. I was literally taking one last peek at my paperwork before phoning one of the manufacturers for my second visit. Tomorrow, I can hear a professional guitarist play the Francisco Bros. guitars. I'LL keep you posted.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:37 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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What a fun way to shop for a guitar! Good luck, I'm sure you'll end up wth a great instrument.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2015, 07:11 PM
FrankHS FrankHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyTinaTwangs View Post
[When words fail, music speaks.
– Hans Christian Anderson]

The next day I shall be driving 90 minutes to Muro de Alcoy to visit the Alhambra factory. here, I hope to try the 5P, the 5P Señorita and the 7C.

After researching into the Cordoba C7 and C9 I am very interested BUT have some reservations. Cordoba seem to have only one distributor in Spain and that is in the Balearic Islands... d
If I were fortunate enough to be able to go to Spain for guitar shopping, it would be to snag a Spanish-made guitar, and not a Cordoba! This from someone (me) very happy with my Cordoba C-10, but that's what we here in Nebraska , USA are happy to find over in Michigan, instead of going to Spain. On the other hand, Cordoba (Chinese) labor costs have apparently given lower end Spanish factory (or quasi-shop made) guitars a run for *their* money. Either way, when in Spain, please get a Spanish (made) guitar, even considering the lower price range you are shooting for.
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