Finding Taylor Nylons in Europe, possible discontinuation? alternatives?

[emmsone]

Hi all,
long story, turns into a bit of a rant, any help you can offer is much appreciated.

So i've been looking for a new guitar for a while, thinking about something different then my steel string dread, strat and les paul, I am sure I want a small body acoustic this time and came to the conclusion I should at least think about going nylon.
After that I then heard Selah Sue in concert and she was playing a NS62 i believe and that basically made my decision for me.

This led to a very long winded search for the last 2 months or more to find a 612ce-n or another one of the nylon string Taylors, specifically so I could play the neck and work out if my short fingers could play the 48mm nut width neck. I finally found a 214ce-N yesterday and enjoyed the way it was playing, but I wasn't overly convinced by the sound, it sounded ok, just a little flat and didn't blow me away. I'm hoping this was mainly because a) it wasn't the smaller GC body i'm really after so i didnt bond with it, and 2) because its the laminate sided one.

I asked the shop about the 612 because thats the one I have in my head that I wanted, the shop guy went away to find about getting hold of one. He spoke to the Taylor rep and then told me because there is a new 6 series and 8 series the nylon versions of those guitars haven't been produced yet, the older versions (2014 and earlier) are no longer in production and there are no plans in the next 6-12 months for the new 6 and 8 series nylons to be produced and become available.
This basically rules out the 2 guitars i was considering the 612 which I really wanted and the 812 if I couldn't find a 612 and leaves me with the 712 and 512 to find out about.
i've heard a few nice youtube recordings of both, the 7 sounds great, but I can't make up my mind about the burst colour until I see one in person, and even though nylon is different, I've never really got along with mahogany in the steel string acoustics so that leaves me unsure about the 5.

The shop told me they can't order either of these models, the 512 or 712 (or 612 if they could find one) for me to "just test" because they will be hard to sell if I don't buy, so basically if I want one I have to order it blind, which is a little disconcerting when its a very noticeable lump of cash.

I'm not in a rush to buy the new guitar, in fact its probably better if I can save up a bit longer, but I thought it good to do my research to find what I should be saving for.

The shop guy then attempted to persuade me that the Yamaha Silent guitar nylon string version is the guitar for me, i'm very not convinced about this as I want an acoustic guitar I can sit on the sofa and play, luckily they don't have the nylon string one in stock.

As far as other Taylor alternatives go, they had the Yamaha crossover there, i forget the model number, but I really didn't get along with its neck so that one is ruled out. I have read a lot of threads on here and the Cordoba Fusion and Cervantes crossovers get a lot of mentions, if anyone knows where I can find either of these in Switzerland, that would be a giant bonus, several of my local guitar shops (and a few not so local that I called) have never even heard of them so it makes these options difficult and those would have to be ordered blind too.
(interestingly it seems the Swiss Cordoba dealer/distributor shop may now be out of business or at least their website is down and there is no answer on their phone)
Another option would be possibly the new Furch Crossover which I saw some pictures of after Musikmesse a few weeks ago, but that is brand new so nobody i've spoken to knows about it yet, and it seems like a GA sized guitar, and I was really looking for a OM/GC body.
I also spotted a Martinez MSCC-14MS which is an interesting looking slimline body nylon crossover type guitar, but I haven't found one of these anywhere to test either.

So all in all, its pretty difficult to find a small body, cutaway, 12 fret, nylon crossover here in Switzerland, if anybody has any other guitar suggestions, or knows where i could/should look, please let me know

Also, I don't really have a problem with second hand if its the right guitar and the right condition, but here in Europe with so few of these type of guitars being sold new, there are virtually none available second hand

Thanks
Dave

[dosland]

I can't give you the exact specs on specific instruments, but Almansa, Admira, Alhambra, etc. all make sort of crossover instruments that may be slightly more accessible in Sui. I've never been very impressed by Taylor's unplugged nylons, but others around here seem to think they're ok, at least since the model number change took effect. Good luck, I know it's less fun shopping for a guitar when you can't get your hands on them to try them out!

[cmajor9]

Where in Europe are you located? I see Taylors, including nylon-stringed ones, fairly regularly for example on eBay Deutschland and eBay UK.

[emmsone]

I'm originally from England but based in Switzerland.
I do check both ebay germany and ebay uk regularly, there are plenty of regular steel string Taylors listed, and regularly some 214 and 314 nylon strings, but in the last several months I may have only seen a single "higher end" Taylor Nylon, and it wasn't the 12 fret GC shape i'm after.

I have finally found a dealer the other side of Switzerland who has a decent selection of crossover alternatives, (and after speaking to him he isn't a Taylor Nylon fan) these include BSG guitars from the Czech Republic, Hanika guitars from Germany, and Picado guitars from Spain. I've heard good things about the BSG steel string guitars, but I am completely in the dark about the Hanika and Picado guitars, i'd never even heard of them until yesterday but I hope to find a way to go and test them out sometime soon.

[cmajor9]

Hanika classical guitars ('Konzertgitarren' in German) are well respected in Germany. I have one with a nice, deep sound. Armin Hanika, the son, carries on the tradition from his father Helmut (who made classical, and also jazz guitars). A higher-end model should certainly be worth trying.

[emmsone]

Yea, I actually I played a Hanika guitar on Monday, man those things just have an absolutely incredible sound, blew me away. I just couldn't get used to the fretboard, it was the 48mm nut width one (i'm coming from a steel string/electric background) not sure if was a width thing, or a shape thing, or a neck profile thing, I played it for an hour and was so memerised by the sound i was trying to convince myself that its "the" choice, but it just wasn't quite right. I also played a Yamaha ntx1200 crossover, hated it, sounded dead (and in comparison, REALLY dead) and was hard work to play.

Unfortunately both Picado guitars were sold as was the second, higher end Hanika 48mm necked guitar and there were no BSG nylon string guitars in stock, will likely have to be a custom order if I want one of those too.

The next option is to wait around for the new Furch crossover to arrive in early june, "apparently" they have a 46mm nut, i'll see how that plays when they come in.

I still haven't found any more Taylor nylons to play and yet another shop has told me that anything not the 214ce-n 314ce-n and 312ce-n is practically impossible to get hold of, even the 312ce-n is a rarity. So these Taylors have almost ruled themselves out of the equation because theres no way i'm spending 3k on a guitar I haven't and can't play in advance that I cannot return or cannot refuse to buy if the shop orders it in. 4 Taylor dealers have said the same thing, so theres something odd going on with the Taylor nylon availability.

[dosland]

In my view, no access to Taylor nylons is a benefit to you - you'll end up with something a lot better at or below the same price point. I really love the Taylor steel sound, but I've yet to play a Taylor nylon that could hold a candle to even a lowish-grade student guitar made by a company that specializes in guitars in the classical-ish tradition. If your Yamaha NTX 1200 sounded and felt dead, the Taylors probably will too (surprised it was hard to play, though, Yamahas tend to come with pretty low action, in my experience - was it a setup issue or a neck profile issue?).

Good luck, hopefully something will come in that hits that sweet spot for you!

[lodi_55]

I play a 414 Nylon FLTD with Cedar/Tasmanian Blackwood that will knock your socks off. I agree it's a mixed bag with Taylor Crossovers, but when you find a good one, it's a really good one!

[emmsone]

@Dosland
with the yamaha, I guess it was a combination of things, neck profile, the gloss neck finish, it wasn't one thing, but as soon as I played it, it also wasn't even close to being a guitar I would buy.

@Lodi
Where did you find that guitar? Did you have to order it? and did you play it before you bought it? this is my main issue with the Taylor nylons

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by emmsone

@Dosland
with the yamaha, I guess it was a combination of things, neck profile, the gloss neck finish, it wasn't one thing, but as soon as I played it, it also wasn't even close to being a guitar I would buy.

@Lodi
Where did you find that guitar? Did you have to order it? and did you play it before you bought it? this is my main issue with the Taylor nylons

Sorry for the delay. I did play it in a shop before buying it. I can understand not wanting to pull the trigger on a guitar without playing. And as much as I do love Taylor nylons, i would recommend playing one first if possible before buying.