Why are American made Guitars better ??

[martinedwards]

As for the car thing, you seen fast & Furious?

Yes American V8s can go fast in a straight line.

Put in a corner (no, not an oval, an actual CORNER) and it all stops.

Toyota Engines are VERY expensive on the breaker's market here in the UK because guys who race (on tracks) snap them up because of the reliablilty.

How many US made cars do I see in a week?

none.

How many French, German, Itailian, Korean, Japanese, Indonesian & now Indian?

7/8 of the cars on the road here.

watch ANY of the car progs on the telly here and they say oooohhh the Ford GT40 is so pretty, classic American Muscle and all that.

Jeremy Clarkson (the ultimate Car journalist in the UK) even bought one and it's now the standing Joke that it breaks down EVERY time he drives it.

American Guitars are generally well made.

The North half of this Island of Ireland has 4 guitar makers of any volume.

George Lowden
Dermot McIlroy
Avalon
Emerald

I DARE anyone to say that Lowden & Emerald aren't inovative!!!

McIlroy & Avalon have a fair wee reputation too!!!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Working Dog

It's a fallacy. Especially when CNC machines are doing all the work. A $1000 Asian is as good as a $1500 American. If you want to pay $100's more for a made in USA lable go ahead.

Hi WD...
I want to pay more for the American one, and it has nothing to do with the label. There are customer service, access to the builders, higher quality woods, and proper repair techs.

You sound a bit like the nay sayers who predicted that synthesizers, and computer recording would turn computer geeks into studio artists and musicians - real musicians were going to be out of work. That was over 20 years ago and what it really resulted in was musicians becoming technicians - not vice versa.

Your premise is wrong.
CNC machines are used in some factory settings, but American built guitars have a lot of ''hands on'' as well (so do Canadian ones).

There is more to building ''good'' guitars than cutting out parts and gluing them together. Reverse engineering a guitar & then using laser cutters, the best CNC machines in the world, & other automatation won't guarantee good results.

That said, I do expect the quality of less expensive guitars to improve in the next few years. Someone will find a way to combine the best parts of high quality woods, automation and inexpensive labor to produce some good competing instruments with those we have held dear.

Right now the examples I've played are even more overbuilt than their American counterparts, but this too will change. When the imitators go after the big boys, they begin to zero in and they listen to the customers.

[jhchang]

Originally Posted by mishmannah

There is no roughness in the frets, no glue hobs anywhere to be seen in the box, no evidence that this was a rush job in an Asian sweat factory.

yeah, I'm puzzled too.

Be careful not to make naive generalization that ALL Asian countries share similar status in guitar making. You have to distinguish Chinese/Japanese/Korean in your comments because there are HUGE difference between the expertise and dedication among these countries.

[ship of fools]

Isnt it funny that almost a year ago this very conversation came up before, and how all of these nay sayers were ragging on asian made instruments,as we argue over US made compared to the rest of the world,but at the Vancouver guitar show I saw instruments from all over the world that were great and some were crap.
You are all going to have to accept the fact that eventually the Asian Market is going to start to build some great instruments,and will compete against your Martins and Taylors and Fenders and so forth.
And like last time Larry is the only one to make the strongest point as to why you might pay more for the instrument made in the US, for the warranty and service available to you as for the other arguments about wood and steel well I see a ton of work going from all over the North Americas and South Americas going to the Asian Market,they are getting better educated when it comes to woods and steels,I see the Boat building going there more and more.
Well its been 3 years since I bought my Washburn and it has done nothing but sound better and allowed me to buy a couple of other instruments,so I guess I will continue to look at the Asian Market,and as long as they sound good I will continue to buy.louis

[Stixx]

As for the car thing, you seen fast & Furious?

Yes American V8s can go fast in a straight line.

Put in a corner (no, not an oval, an actual CORNER) and it all stops.

Interesting comment. You might want to go to an actual
race and see how many Asian Cars you see. you might find
a few Honda engines in forumla racing but in the LeMans
series , it' is Corvette one to three and not only do they
eat Asian and German entries, in their class but they generally are a better value.

As an American I only wish that GM and others would have
done with all American Cars what they did with the venable Corvette, that being to stick with one idea and
continue to perfect it.

They had a better Porsche and Nadir killed it before it had
time to develop while ignoring Porsche's with the same issues. Now Porsche commands six figures while you can
buy a Chevrolet that can kick it's *** at half the price and
have at least as good a resale value.

Perceived value is moot. The thing is I love all well made
foreign and domestic products but when it comes to guitars the only asian guitar I own is one that looks like
a Gretch and is used as a gimmie for any theives who break in to steal my real wood. The gretch looks like the
3 grand model but isn't. LOL

As for my garage, I would love to park a vette in there if
I could afford one but for now my little Volvo will do. LOL
Hey it's a ford in swedish clothing. LOL

[ramsa]

I have bought a fair number of Japanese/Korean guitars over the past 30 years, and I believe it's a mistake not to understand the length of history behind string instrument building in Asian countries. Been doing it a LONG time..
Also, economics aside, the work ethics of "fussy Asian luthiers" can not be denied. To some, it's a spiritual experience to build musical instruments. (Not unlike sword making...) They can, and will continue to produce fine guitars.

That being said, my "good" acoustics, and 2 electrics are American made. I keep an Asian acoustic for road travels, and a Korean jazzbox due to it's low cost.

I feel that the American made product is worth more, so I protect it more.

The Asian product is great stuff, but alot more easily replaced...

Dave

[Negator]

Originally Posted by Stixx

Now Porsche commands six figures while you can
buy a Chevrolet that can kick it's *** at half the price and
have at least as good a resale value.

It's also known that a corvette can beat a Ferrari in a drag as well. But that's all it has. Horse power. Handling.......who would choose a corvette over a Ferrari?

The car to guitar comparison does not work out very well if we were to go into specifics. 0-60? the 911 Turbo will beat the Z06 corvette. 0-100, the Corvette claims 9.5, Turbo claims 8.7 (0-99).

I would like to see a video of a Chevy killing a Porsche.

But either way....... I still like american made guitars.

[smorgdonkey]

I love the Corvette talk...a few years ago they took a Corvette and an Acura NSX around Laguna Seca racetrack...the brakes were shot after a lap in the 'vette and the NSX kicked its azz in every category.

I love Corvettes but if that is a design that is 'being perfected'...I wonder how many years it will take...

As for :

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi WD...
I want to pay more for the American one, and it has nothing to do with the label. There are customer service, access to the builders, higher quality woods, and proper repair techs.

Every import guitar dealer that I visit has great service, and great repair techs...access to builders-that's not really important to most people...and your comment about wood quality is only an opinion.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

You sound a bit like the nay sayers who predicted that synthesizers, and computer recording would turn computer geeks into studio artists and musicians - real musicians were going to be out of work. That was over 20 years ago and what it really resulted in was musicians becoming technicians - not vice versa.

I know many REAL musicians that WOULD BE WORKING in the music 'industry' were it not for synthesizers and computers...that stuff has changed the taste as well as the face of music. Musicians have become more tech savy but the musicianship has become much more limited as it relates to the music market and therefor less 'actual musician jobs'.

Furthermore, most of the 'import guitar operations' are overseen by a prominent person who is experienced in making the non-import guitars.

[Stixx]

That a Z o6 does it with a normally aspirated engine impresses me. I have owned a porsche 911 back in the
eighties and a Corvet in the early ninetys. My friends Z o6 is far better than either of mine from the past but then it
should as it now cost well over what I can certainly afford.
As for Ferrari, To say a Ferrari will out handle a Corvette Z06 is naiive at best. The old days of the 60's when Vettes
only went well in a straight line is ancient history. Don't you ever read camparison's or watch racing no the large
high speed courses around the country. Corvettes today
are among the best handling cars on earth and they don't
need 40,000 dollar brakes to do it . Dollar for dollar the
venable Corvette has been toughted by every auto journalist in the country as the best supercar value
hands down. If you buy two Corvette Z 06's at full retail
price you will have enough change over the current Ferrari
''entry level" machines to buy a couple hondas for every
day and the Ferrarri stll wont take a stock Zo6 around
3 laps of any track in the country given the same driver

Also I like it that Corvette still knows where the sixpeed
shifter goes. Still has a proper pedal placement for perfect
high speed driving has Stock brakes you can win track
day at the track with out setting the car on fire and for
the most part will put any car within twice it's price in
it's place.

But then don't know why I should bring that up as Ferrari's
are certainly fine cars , if not overpriced, but they are not
Asian at all. LOL

The only way Japan ever beat Corvettes was to throw about a billion dollars worth of kevlar and overstressed
ultralight weight engines at them in prototpye million
dollar cars and then gave up in the end when they realized
no one cared. But you gotta love it that Toyota HAS given
the good ole boys a run at the truck races on Saturday night...............

Never tell anyone knowledgeable about racing that a corvette only goes in a straight line, that is an argument
for tuner cars with the little frankenstien motors. They
can NOT even go in a straight line so they invented drifting
which BTW is a heck of a lot of fun but the absolute slowest way around a road course.

Each generation has to find ther kicks I reckon, and hey
I don't even LIKE baggy pants.

Give me an old Takamine though and I can take it anywhere and not worry about it breaking. So I reckon
there is a good reason to have at least one Japanese
Guitar.

All the best

[Working Dog]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi WD...
I want to pay more for the American one, and it has nothing to do with the label. There are customer service, access to the builders, higher quality woods, and proper repair techs.

You sound a bit like the nay sayers who predicted that synthesizers, and computer recording would turn computer geeks into studio artists and musicians - real musicians were going to be out of work. That was over 20 years ago and what it really resulted in was musicians becoming technicians - not vice versa.

Your premise is wrong.
CNC machines are used in some factory settings, but American built guitars have a lot of ''hands on'' as well (so do Canadian ones).

There is more to building ''good'' guitars than cutting out parts and gluing them together. Reverse engineering a guitar & then using laser cutters, the best CNC machines in the world, & other automatation won't guarantee good results.

That said, I do expect the quality of less expensive guitars to improve in the next few years. Someone will find a way to combine the best parts of high quality woods, automation and inexpensive labor to produce some good competing instruments with those we have held dear.

Right now the examples I've played are even more overbuilt than their American counterparts, but this too will change. When the imitators go after the big boys, they begin to zero in and they listen to the customers.

I'm talking about mass produced guitars. If you want to pay 4 grand for a hand made model that's fine. But if your paying 1000-1500 for a Martin or Taylor you can find an Asian model for a helluva lot cheaper that sounds as good or better and is just as well built.

[Stixx]

love the Corvette talk...a few years ago they took a Corvette and an Acura NSX around Laguna Seca racetrack...the brakes were shot after a lap in the 'vette and the NSX kicked its azz in every category.

I love Corvettes but if that is a design that is 'being perfected'...I wonder how many years it will take...

funny I don't recall the Acura NSX even showing up at LeManns never mind winning against a
corvette. What trumped up bogus race was that one.??
LOL

Quote from racing news recently .
SEBRING, Fla. - Corvette Racing celebrated Corvette's 50th anniversary in international road racing with a victory in the Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring. The No. 4 Compuware Corvette C6.R driven by Oliver Gavin, Olivier Beretta and Jan Magnussen ran like clockwork throughout the 12-hour endurance race, finishing first in the GT1 class and third overall with a one-lap margin of victory over their rivals in the No. 009 Aston Martin DBR9. Ron Fellows, Johnny O'Connell and Max Papis finished fourth in the GT1 division and seventh overall in the No. 3 Compuware Corvette C6.R following a hard-fought battle with the No. 007 Aston Martin in the closing laps.

"It was a brilliant victory because this is the 50th year of racing for Corvette, a heritage that began here in Sebring with a win in 1956," said Gavin, who notched this third Sebring title. "We're absolutely delighted."

This has been going on now for a few years not a flash in the pan. Fast and furious it ain't , this ain't hollowood staged drift shows, this is real racing , I know I learned how to drive at Sebring and it ain't for the faint of heart
even in the little cars I drove back then, In a new racing
vette it would be downright scary. LOL

[Negator]

Are you comparing the Z06 to like...a F40? F430?
I was thinking more like....the FXX or the P4/5. But of course, one could argue if you could dump that much into a Ferrari, you could do the same for a corvette.

Yes the corvette has been "toughted by every auto journalist in the country as the best supercar value." But in most articles, their main reasons are because of its sheer power, not handling. Though I'm sure the Corvette has come a long ways since .....since way back when.

(Yes i know the P4/5 is just pretty much...the Enzo with a new body.)

[guitpl4evr]

Originally Posted by ayavner

you're not going to believe this..... Bed Bath and Beyond has started selling guitars... WTF? I picked one up while my wife was looking at comforter sets, and it was truly, truly aweful... and the worst part is it was by some offshoot of Gibson, so they get to use that name. Bleh!

talk about "beyond"....

HAhahah too funny.... It's a guitar to play while you are taking a bath and the humidity penetrates the wood, then it sounds fantastic; they did not tell you that..

[uncle dizzy 60]

Does anybondy know how to play a 458 Blown Corvette? Did you know that Guitar Center used to train its "associates" using Ford Motor Company videos? Since when are cars and guitars comparable? Can you pick up your Camro and play Freebird? Or can you get into your Taylor, floor it and do zero to 60 in 5 flat? Apples and oranges folks. Cars are expendable! Guitars are more of a personal attachemnt, especially if you find the right one---ONE, not 40. Like I say, you can only play one at a time! As for American quality (this includes both Canada and Mexico as well!), it far outshines the cookie cutter manufacturers. There are, of course, those exceptions to the cookie cutters--Yamaha, Blueridge etc. Like fine wines, a guitar has to age. If it falls apart as it ages, what good is it? Let's see what an Avalon or a Blueridge is like in 10-15 years. Till then, cut yourself a bit of slack folks. Between price point and sound quality, I'll pay what it takes to get the sound I want, whether it is American, Canadian, Mexican, Korean, Japanese or Chinese. When you boil it down, it is the sound and playability that counts.

[jhchang]

would you keep on buying/selling/trading your Corvette or Ford or any car until you find THE one you love? Or you do this for your DVD player? Oh I've finally found my ultimate Holy-Graily digital camera!!