Tube amps- am I missing out?

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

I am a retired electronics technician (39+) years.

Tubes are a waste of money. Any perceived difference in sound is imaginary.

“A waste of money” would be true for some, not for others.
“Any perceived difference in sound is imaginary” is not true unless you’re equating the words “perceived” and “imaginary” - as having the same meaning, which they don’t. Different circuits, different components, different signal, different sound.

[Big Band Guitar]

Originally Posted by Nymuso

Are you putting a jazz box through it?

I don't know what that is.

I use an acoustic arch top with a clip on condenser microphone.

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

I don't know what that is.

I use an acoustic arch top with a clip on condenser microphone.

You raise a point there. I think the marriage of tubes amps with magnetic guitar pickups is where they shine - not necessarily with other inputs .. eg. mics and piezos.
The colour photo analogy I used may get too colourful in certain combinations just as a middly guitar may blend better with a mid scooped amp/ speaker combination for some people.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Well, I can tell you I personally hate particle board, but again that is a more jaded personal opinion from dealing with sheets of it for so many years...
Now from a purely technical standpoint, the same 3/4" 4x8 ft. sheet got a lot heaver when I was 55 than when I was 30

I hear ya, Kev: picked up an exceptionally-clean '65 Super Reverb RI about 15 years ago (back when I could still pick it up... ), hasn't left the house since who-knows-when - only good news is that it's still in virtually mint condition, so I should be able to make a healthy buck on it when I sell...

That said, this lifetime tube-combo guy has since come to appreciate the wisdom of separate cabs/heads - over the last couple years the Holy Grail blue-check Ampeg Portaflex B-12XT and blackface Twin amps of my youth have seriously lost their appeal. Haven't had the chance to play it out yet - got some stuff coming up later this spring - but last year I scored a Mojotone Lite 2x10" cab (solid pine, 18 pounds empty) that I loaded with two Peavey Scorpions that I had in my basement: half the weight of my Super, handles 400W@4 ohms, has the fatness of 12's with the chime of 10's, a whole lot easier to split the 34-pound weight with my Bugera T50 head (26 pounds) rather than wrestling a similarly-powered 65-pound 4x10" combo, and if I need to travel really light it handles pedalboard amps with equal aplomb. Good news for my near 71-year-old body, my chiropractor's already gotten rich enough off my wallet, and I'm looking at the 13-1/2 lb. Mojotone Lite Vertical 1x12" to load with a '70s JBL E-120 I pulled from my '64 Ampeg Rocket (I'm thinking a very manageable 30 pounds total), and pair with either a Vox MV50AC or Bugera T5 mini-head - should be a killer rehearsal/small-house rig...

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I hear ya, Kev: picked up an exceptionally-clean '65 Super Reverb RI about 15 years ago (back when I could still pick it up... ), hasn't left the house since who-knows-when - only good news is that it's still in virtually mint condition, so I should be able to make a healthy buck on it when I sell...

That said, this lifetime tube-combo guy has since come to appreciate the wisdom of separate cabs/heads - over the last couple years the Holy Grail blue-check Ampeg Portaflex B-12XT and blackface Twin amps of my youth have seriously lost their appeal. Haven't had the chance to play it out yet - got some stuff coming up later this spring - but last year I scored a Mojotone Lite 2x10" cab (solid pine, 18 pounds empty) that I loaded with two Peavey Scorpions that I had in my basement: half the weight of my Super, handles 400W@4 ohms, has the fatness of 12's with the chime of 10's, a whole lot easier to split the 34-pound weight with my Bugera T50 head (26 pounds) rather than wrestling a similarly-powered 65-pound 4x10" combo, and if I need to travel really light it handles pedalboard amps with equal aplomb. Good news for my near 71-year-old body, my chiropractor's already gotten rich enough off my wallet, and I'm looking at the 13-1/2 lb. Mojotone Lite Vertical 1x12" to load with a '70s JBL E-120 I pulled from my '64 Ampeg Rocket (I'm thinking a very manageable 30 pounds total), and pair with either a Vox MV50AC or Bugera T5 mini-head - should be a killer rehearsal/small-house rig...

Yep just turned 74 last month . I started down the change to head and cab route about 6 years ago I had sold my Mesa Lone Star Special combo (which I think was pushing 59 lbs) and ended up with Lunch box style REVV D 20 --20 watt hybrid tube head and a Port City 2 X 12 vertical Cab ( I think 38 lbs loaded)




And just recently this little dynamo . The D. Kowalski Dark Gene .5 (thats 1/2 watt) head and the 1x12 Supro Titan extension cab from my Supro Titan mini stack. I still have the Supro Titan 1X10 combo (47 lbs itself ) but have not used it since getting the Dark Gene

[jonfields45]

I did a little bake-off today, Positive Grid Spark Go, black panel deluxe model, hall reverb, QSC CP-8, vs. StewMac Princeton Reverb kit.

I switched back and forth maybe a dozen or more times, they are clearly not meant to sound the same, but I seemed to initially always like best the previous one...

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

I don't know what that is. . . .

Jazz boxes are big guitars. They usually have one cutaway, wide sides, arched top and back, two f-holes, bound body and neck, one or two magnetic pickups, and two or four control knobs. The best have carved tops and backs, but plywood tops and backs are more common because they're a lot cheaper.

Most are either Gibsons or copies of Gibsons. Just Google jazz box and you'll see hundreds.

And look! Here's Joe Pass playing one now!

[Big Band Guitar]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Jazz boxes are big guitars. They usually have one cutaway, wide sides, arched top and back, two f-holes, bound body and neck, one or two magnetic pickups, and two or four control knobs. The best have carved tops and backs, but plywood tops and backs are more common because they're a lot cheaper.

Most are either Gibsons or copies of Gibsons. Just Google jazz box and you'll see hundreds.

And look! Here's Joe Pass playing one now!

I also play my ES-175 through the LoudBox on the rare times I get it out.

So my Gibson ES-175D would be considered a Jazz Box? I refer to it as my electric guitar.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Well I can tell you I personally hate particle board but again but that is more jaded personal opinion from dealing with sheets of it for so many years
Now from a purely technical stand point the same 3/4" 4x8 ft. sheet,, got a lot heaver when I was 55 than when I was 30

I set up a small shop at home last year, and at almost 74 years have noticed the same thing now with 4x8 sheets of veneer plywood. Sure seemed lots easier back when I built cabinets, and remodeled homes, before transitioning into design consulting in my early 40's.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by seannx

I set up a small shop at home last year, and at almost 74 years have noticed the same thing now with 4x8 sheets of veneer plywood. Sure seemed lots easier back when I built cabinets, and remodeled homes, before transitioning into design consulting in my early 40's.

Yeah, I framed homes when I was 20 and it was no problem. Not so today.

Bob

[rollypolly]

They’re cheap enough to find out. Go to a local shop and play a couple. I’m on my second Pro Jr. They’re fun and if bought used very affordable. In my limited experience tube amps are warmer, sound rounder and just better, but of course if you’re always using FX pedals a lot of that color gets drowned out.

[Gryf]

Tube amps are great. But guess what? So are a lot of todays non-tube amps. Truth is, if you're a contented play-at-home guy like me, who never really cranks anything to loudly, you're not going to miss a thing. In fact, you're probably going to enjoy some of today's modeling amps even more than you would a tube. You know, IMHO....

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Gryf

...Truth is, if you're a contented play-at-home guy like me, who never really cranks anything too loudly, you're not going to miss a thing...

If you have an old cab that you haven't used in years lying around, pick up one of these for about what you'd pay for a decent stompbox, come back in a week or two, and tell us what you think:




https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ss-a-tube-head

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Gryf

Tube amps are great. But guess what? So are a lot of todays non-tube amps. Truth is, if you're a contented x like me, who never really cranks anything to loudly, you're not going to miss a thing. In fact, you're probably going to enjoy some of today's modeling amps even more than you would a tube. You know, IMHO....

While it's completely valid and no question that Solid Sate amps can be great, but that is true regardless of the intended use and volume level.

Just as the truth is if you are a "play at home guy" that SS can be great and or tube amps can be great. AGAIN regardless of volume level.

The invalid myth is you have to "crank tubes loudly" to sound good

The truth is If you only play an SS amp at home , you are in fact definitely going to "miss" the sound and feel of playing a tube amp at home (again regardless of volume level) AND the reverse is also true if you only play a tube amp at home you will be missing the sound an feel of playing an SS amp

Now wether or not "missing that" actually matters or not to someone, is completely subjective.

[Bob Womack]

There are all sorts of tube amp tones. If you want Wes Montgomery, you don't need to crank it up. If you want Joe Walsh or the Allman Brothers, you are going to need to crank. Neither one of those two guitar tones sounds as good with "Master Volume" preamp distortion as it does with power amp distortion.

This is where the statement I made in my prior post comes into play: amp makers have just gotten their heads around the business of power amp distortion at low lever in the past few years. Let's be honest, a cranked five watt amp blasts me out of a small practice room. As a recording engineer/producer I work with my ears and can't afford to irradiate myself with 90-10odb amp output, which a little five watt amp can do when wound out in a confined space. That is where modern technology is coming through.

The example I discussed before, the Marshall Origin 20 amp, is a twenty-watt amp. It WILL rip your head off in a bedroom... BUT, Marshall has recently come up was a power-scaling system called "Power Stem" that reduces the twenty watts to either three watts or one-half watt with only minimal effect on the sound of the amp. You can be flogging the amp at one-half watt and it just sounds quieter than twenty, no less power amp distortion. It is a classic low-mid gain amp, like the amps from the '60s and early '70s Here's a useful nine-minute demo with two guitars. Pardon the French:

The silly thing costs only $650 MAP. I spent a couple of hours with the head version of this the other day. Mercy.

Bob