An Oil Varnish Thread...

[peter.coombe]

Peter - do you brush the em2000?

Yes, I use a high quality synthetic artist brush.

[Laurent Brondel]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Laurent,

As I recall, you use Epifanes Clear Varnish, but I'm wondering if you've tried Epifanes' other varnishes like Rapid Coat or PP Varnish Extra for build coats?

Rapid Coat and PP Varnish Extra say they bond well to oily woods (good, right?), build thickness quickly and don't need sanding between coats. I'm sure this is mostly for building thickness on boat trim where leveling is less important than on a guitar, but quick build, and fast drying don't sound bad, so I'm wondering if you've experimented with these.

Also, would you mind sharing the proportions of varnish, accelerator and thinner (and japan drier) in your recipe?

Thanks!

I use the Woodfinish Gloss as a sealer coat, and maybe 3 or 4 more coats after that. It adheres incredibly well to any oily wood and is a great base for the clear varnish.

The other product I've tried is RapidClear. I used it to mimic the fullerplast sealer coats on F style solid bodies, which it does very well.

The other Epifanes products are clear modern deviations from traditional varnishes.

For the clear varnish I use on guitars proportions are 1:1:1 clear varnish, accelerator & solvent (naphtha or real turpentine, or a mix of both). I add 1/2 the maximum recommendation of Japan drier.
While the Epifanes does not dry in the can nearly as fast as Rockhard (the worst in that respect), it's important to transfer the leftover varnish in full smaller cans, and/or use a sealant gas to prevent polymerisation in the can…

[capohk]

Hi Laurent

I've managed to source the Epifanes clear varnish, accelerator and brush thinner locally - my new friend Gavin at Epifanes has offered to deliver the stuff in person on his motorscooter! Hows that for customer service.

The Japan drier I don't know about, I'm thinking it will only serve to decrease drying time and therefore isn't critical to the final finish?

I am intending to brush my finish on - do you think your ratios of 1-1-1 will work for brushing?

TIA

[Laurent Brondel]

If you're brushing you may want to use a slower evaporating thinner, like turpentine instead of naphtha, but both will work.
I see you're in Hong Kong, humidity is your enemy -and not only for oil varnish- so I hope your shop is RH controlled. The dryer and hotter, the faster it cures.
Japan Drier is sold in all paint and hardware stores here in the US, they're just metallic dryers. They're definitely speeding up the curing process, I can spray 2 coats per day, and I feel they make the film harder too.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by Laurent Brondel

I use the Woodfinish Gloss as a sealer coat, and maybe 3 or 4 more coats after that. It adheres incredibly well to any oily wood and is a great base for the clear varnish.

The other product I've tried is RapidClear. I used it to mimic the fullerplast sealer coats on F style solid bodies, which it does very well.

The other Epifanes products are clear modern deviations from traditional varnishes.

For the clear varnish I use on guitars proportions are 1:1:1 clear varnish, accelerator & solvent (naphtha or real turpentine, or a mix of both). I add 1/2 the maximum recommendation of Japan drier.
While the Epifanes does not dry in the can nearly as fast as Rockhard (the worst in that respect), it's important to transfer the leftover varnish in full smaller cans, and/or use a sealant gas to prevent polymerisation in the can…

Just as clarification for me ---- Are you saying you use a single coat of Woodfinish Gloss followed by subsequent coats Clear Varnish?

Also, when you say 1/2 the maximum recommendation of japan drier, am I correct that you mean the recommendation on the can of the japan drier? (I'm assuming Epifanes doesn't have a recommendation for japan drier amounts, right?

[Laurent Brondel]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Just as clarification for me ---- Are you saying you use a single coat of Woodfinish Gloss followed by subsequent coats Clear Varnish?

Also, when you say 1/2 the maximum recommendation of japan drier, am I correct that you mean the recommendation on the can of the japan drier? (I'm assuming Epifanes doesn't have a recommendation for japan drier amounts, right?

I use the Woodfinish Gloss thinned like a sealer as a 1st coat, followed by the same Woodfinish Gloss full strength for 3 more coats for a quick build, after that I switch for the Clear Varnish.
Yes, 1/2 the maximum recommended on the Japan Drier can, although I've used it full strength without ill effect.
Epifanes looks at me like a mad scientist (I am no scientist at all), but their products are aimed at the high end boat market… They were very helpful in helping me formulating a harder finish for musical instruments, however.

EDIT: on guitars where there are no exotics I do not use the Woodfinish Gloss, I seal first with a thinned coat of Clear Varnish, and go full strength after that. The Woodfinish cures readily on oily woods, the Clear Varnish not.

[Quickstep192]

I'm wondering if anyone is brushing their build coats and then finishing up by spraying the final coat or two after leveling the previous coat?

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

I'm wondering if anyone is brushing their build coats and then finishing up by spraying the final coat or two after leveling the previous coat?

Once I developed the skill needed to spray an even wet coat I saw no further reason to use a brush. Because it requires less sanding, a spray coat adds more film than a brush coat, at least for me. Leaving out the price of the compressor, a decent brush can cost considerably more than an acceptable touch up gun, and the brush requires more maintainance to work properly!

[Laurent Brondel]

As Bruce said, if you have access to spray equipment and a spray booth there is no reason to use a brush.
The best brush technique will not lay as flat and thick, and most importantly as even, a finish as a good spray technique.
Spraying oil varnish is different from spraying lacquer, mostly due to the speed in curing differential, but the same overall technique applies.

[redir]

I must be buying cheap brushes. I think I paid about $30 bucks for the one I use. I had no idea that a good brush would cost more than a spray gun. What kind of brushes do you guys use and at what cost?

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by redir

I must be buying cheap brushes. I think I paid about $30 bucks for the one I use. I had no idea that a good brush would cost more than a spray gun. What kind of brushes do you guys use and at what cost?

While I have paid most of a hundred bucks for a brush, you have turned my point around. While one can pay well over a hundred bucks for a spray gun, and I have, I get every bit as good a result from Harbor Freight's $15 "hvlp" touch up gun. And therefore that is what I use. Once the tool is good enough, it's all about technique.

As with any finish work, the trick is getting even overlapping coats wet enough to flow, but not so thick as to sag or run or drip. The viscosity must be monitored for consistancy, then it is a matter of coordinating flow rate with speed of stroke and also getting the right overlap between strokes. As with brushing, where you start and where you stop both the process and the stroke is best thought out in advance.

One nice thing about oil varnish is that if a coat goes sideways, as it sometime will, you can simply wipe it off and start again.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Once the tool is good enough, it's all about technique.

That sums up so many things just perfectly . . . .

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by Laurent Brondel

I use the Woodfinish Gloss thinned like a sealer as a 1st coat, followed by the same Woodfinish Gloss full strength for 3 more coats for a quick build,

When you do the full strength coats, do you use a different tip size on the spray gun? By the way, what tip sizes are you using?

[Pat Foster]

I've been brushing Epifanes for about four years. For the way I work, it has excellent leveling and buffing characteristics. I started with good varnish brushes, but have switched to (good) foam brushes. I find I get better control at edges, and don't have to bother with cleaning them. If acetone is used to aid in coat-to-coat bonding though, foam brushes are out, since the acetone dissolves the foam. Makes a mess - this I know.

Pat

[gstring]

Ken Miller uses Pratt and Lambert floor varnish ( hand rubbed ) and my Miller guitar looks and sounds wonderful;

daniel