How to approach dressing frets with rolled fretboard edges?

[J.acoustic]

So, I employ thumb wrap for my bar chords. I have found that the most comfortable neck profile for me is 7.25" radius fretboard and a C shape with heavy rolled edges. i'd consider the soft V they show here more or less perfect, including the heavy rolled fretboard edges:

http://www.fretboard.com/fenderneck.jpg

So... when doing this... do you nip the fret end and dress AFTER the rolled edge? I don't want to lose too much fret space for my strings. At the same time, if I nip the fret further out, which is somewhat how I have my setup now, even though I soften and dressed the ends... they do stick out a bit.

What is the ideal approach to this? Any advice (pictures welcome!) as to best approach to really get a nice soft edge that transitions from neck to fretboard while still maintaining adequate fret width?

Thanks!


One of other important things I'm trying to figure out with all this is how much this rolled edge and fret dressing accounts for "lost" width between where the fretboard is widest and where the useable fret starts. So, if my fretboard is 50mm at one spot... is there 52mm available fret space for strings? 54mm? It depends on size of rolled edge and where I start fret end / dressing.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by J.acoustic

So, I employ thumb wrap for my bar chords. I have found that the most comfortable neck profile for me is 7.25" radius fretboard and a C shape with heavy rolled edges. i'd consider the soft V they show here more or less perfect, including the heavy rolled fretboard edges:

http://www.fretboard.com/fenderneck.jpg

So... when doing this... do you nip the fret end and dress AFTER the rolled edge? I don't want to lose too much fret space for my strings. At the same time, if I nip the fret further out, which is somewhat how I have my setup now, even though I soften and dressed the ends... they do stick out a bit.

What is the ideal approach to this? Any advice (pictures welcome!) as to best approach to really get a nice soft edge that transitions from neck to fretboard while still maintaining adequate fret width?

Thanks!


One of other important things I'm trying to figure out with all this is how much this rolled edge and fret dressing accounts for "lost" width between where the fretboard is widest and where the useable fret starts. So, if my fretboard is 50mm at one spot... is there 52mm available fret space for strings? 54mm? It depends on size of rolled edge and where I start fret end / dressing.

When re-fretting, I trim the frets as close as possible to the necessary width. Too short, and you can run into problems. Too long, and you have a LOT of filing to do. Fret ends are usually bevelled. The bevel should be taller (closer to 90 degrees) for string spacing that leaves the high and low E's close to the fingerboard edge. The bevel can be flatter (further from 90 degrees) if the string spacing is far from fingerboard edges (as per a classical guitar, for example).

For non-bound fingerboards, the frets should be filed just just just to the point where you begin to touch the finish, without taking off the lion's share of the finish. THEN, put the bevel in.

Hope this helps.

[J.acoustic]

But where would you start the fret when it comes to the rolled fretboard edge? Should I start the frets at the same spot the radius starts? i.e. after the rolled fretboard? Or should I start the frets as if the rolled edge isn't there? and then the frets will essentially stick out in relation to the fretboard edge (but can be dressed of course).

I imagine if I were to start AFTER the rolled fretboard edge, which could likely take 1-2mm from the width, that maybe I'd do very little fret bevel to give myself extra space on fret for strings?

[emmsone]

My only experience with rolled fretboard edges is when I rolled the fretboard edges on my bass guitar before i fretted it. I was told its most often done the other way around.
After doing the fretwork I can see why. If the radius of the 'roll' is quite large, this effectively tightens the fretboard radius at the ends and getting the frets all the way down seated and in place at the very ends was pretty tricky as the fret radius is no longer constant. I managed eventually by using some 6" fret cauls that basically just held the ends in well enough to superglue after the rest of the fret had been fitted nicely. Then i beveled to a 'normal' bevel angle and rounded off the ends by hand and by eye.

I guess if you fit the frets first and filed the frets flush to the fretboard, the act of sanding the rolled edge into the fretboard would also effectively bevel the frets but don't quote me on that, thats just my assumption, but its seems simple enough that it would work like that. Hopefully someone can confirm if thats right or not. I did it the other way which worked out in the end but proved more awkward then normal.

[dekutree64]

Shape the fret ends before installing them. Here's what I've been doing lately:



Spherical fret ends, board edges slightly rounded before installing frets, and a small space between the fret end and the beginning of the rounding to ensure that it will never poke out in dry weather or snag on fingernails when playing over the board. It does sacrifice a bit of edge space, so depending on how close to the edge of the board you need the low E string to be, you may want the heavy rounding to only be between frets.

[D. Churchland]

I've built separate fretboards for shaping/filing frets before installing them. I'll get a picture of the jig when I get to the shop tomorrow.

[J.acoustic]

Originally Posted by dekutree64

Shape the fret ends before installing them. Here's what I've been doing lately:



Spherical fret ends, board edges slightly rounded before installing frets, and a small space between the fret end and the beginning of the rounding to ensure that it will never poke out in dry weather or snag on fingernails when playing over the board. It does sacrifice a bit of edge space, so depending on how close to the edge of the board you need the low E string to be, you may want the heavy rounding to only be between frets.

It looks like regardless you want to do one of two things:

1. Start frets AFTER rolled exe like in that picture. This should give you a smoother feel up and down neck.


2. Dress frets ignoring rolled edges. I can see it being easier to perform with frets installed. However, it could be done before too. It would almost be scalloped in feel because the fret ends would stick out beyond fret rolled edges. This gives more usable space.

I am thinking option 1 might be best but not sure.

Right now I have another issue and that's that the,neck I shaped is off by 0.5 mm. So need to either choose option 2 from above for extra space, have no bevel to my fret edges of just reduce string to edge spacing slightly (already low at 3mm and 2mm for e and E strings)

[J.acoustic]

Originally Posted by emmsone

My only experience with rolled fretboard edges is when I rolled the fretboard edges on my bass guitar before i fretted it. I was told its most often done the other way around.
After doing the fretwork I can see why. If the radius of the 'roll' is quite large, this effectively tightens the fretboard radius at the ends and getting the frets all the way down seated and in place at the very ends was pretty tricky as the fret radius is no longer constant. I managed eventually by using some 6" fret cauls that basically just held the ends in well enough to superglue after the rest of the fret had been fitted nicely. Then i beveled to a 'normal' bevel angle and rounded off the ends by hand and by eye.

I guess if you fit the frets first and filed the frets flush to the fretboard, the act of sanding the rolled edge into the fretboard would also effectively bevel the frets but don't quote me on that, thats just my assumption, but its seems simple enough that it would work like that. Hopefully someone can confirm if thats right or not. I did it the other way which worked out in the end but proved more awkward then normal.

Well, to avoid that problem you can just lose fret space by starting the fret AFTER rounded edge. You will lose up to 1mm for heavy rolled edge. So, now I'm thinking that's a bad idea if I want to have more fret space.

I have an electric neck that's already rolled and I'll just roll (pun intended) with it. Because there is no wood over the rolled edge, the fretboard has to to start further in? Unless I try and do what you said and seat part of the edge? Wouldn't the fret follow a strange tight radius at the edges? How would I achieve that? I imagine it would look like this:

https://richboromusic.files.wordpres...1/11/blog5.jpg

If that isn't done, it won't seat properly and will poke you.

So, I guess on the neck I have I could try that AND try shorter frets. Heck could do half and half to compare feel then choose one I like and refret whole thing that way.

Then on any new necks an alternative approach would be to roll edges AFTER installing frets. This allows for you to seat frets to give more fretting width and keep them seated properly. It would essentially be creating a minor scallop.

Decisions, decisions. I have a little mini mini (1/4) acoustic I'm currently also doing and need to decide which approach to use.

[dekutree64]

Originally Posted by J.acoustic

I have an electric neck that's already rolled and I'll just roll (pun intended) with it. Because there is no wood over the rolled edge, the fretboard has to to start further in? Unless I try and do what you said and seat part of the edge? Wouldn't the fret follow a strange tight radius at the edges? How would I achieve that? I imagine it would look like this:

https://richboromusic.files.wordpres...1/11/blog5.jpg

That's pretty cool A good option for that would be to use bar fretwire. Then you can grind in whatever shape you want, including an even tighter rounding radius, and it won't have those potentially snaggy corners either.

[John Arnold]

I trim the frets square with the outside of the fingerboard, using flush cutters. I then file the fret ends in two steps, using a short section of a mill file with a ground safe edge. The crown of the fret is filed square (sometimes using a guide to lay on the tops of the frets to control the depth of filing), and the tang is filed flush with the rolled edge of the fingerboard. The safe edge of the file allows me to produce the two angles that are concave. After that, I proceed normally to round the ends of the fret crowns.
I wish I had photos, but it's been several years since I did one this way.
Older Martins have rolled fingerboard edges to varying degrees. On those, I simply file to the angle that is just enough to get the crowns flush, then round the ends of the crowns on the sides only. The only rounding I do at the tops of the fret crowns is done with 220 sandpaper and a rubber block. With the rolled fingerboard edge, it takes very little rounding to make the fret ends comfortable, and that preserves the most fret width without doing the two-angle filing that I described above.

[Howard Klepper]

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