Set-through neck?

[PhilQ]

Do any of the individual builders use a set through neck on acoustic guitars?Is there a reason why this isn't a commonly used method? Seems to me it could have some advantages both mechanically and sound-wise (maybe...) and that it would be an easier joint to get right than a dovetail...I'd love to hear from anyone who's tried or who uses this...Thanks!

[Rodger Knox]

The neck on an acoustic doesn't continue all the way to the tail, it stops above the soundhole. There's no reason for it to continue through the body.

If you mean a single piece of wood for the neck and block, that's a Spanish heel and has been done for centuries on classical guitars.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

The neck on an acoustic doesn't continue all the way to the tail, it stops above the soundhole. There's no reason for it to continue through the body.
.

One reason would be to distribute forces.

Recently someone pasted links to a Canadian manufacturer using a through neck design: read through the discussion on the Gurian neck replacement.

[PhilQ]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

The neck on an acoustic doesn't continue all the way to the tail, it stops above the soundhole. There's no reason for it to continue through the body.

If you mean a single piece of wood for the neck and block, that's a Spanish heel and has been done for centuries on classical guitars.

Thanks for the answer Roger. I have already built a few acoustics myself, so I know how they are traditionally done. I didn't mean a neck-through body like for an electric, but rather a set-through neck. Meaning a deep square pocket that could be routed into the head block into which you would glue the corresponding male part which would be at the end of your neck shaft. So your final headblock would be kind of half block and half neck. You'd get more gluing surface (and maybe stability).

[PhilQ]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

One reason would be to distribute forces.

Recently someone pasted links to a Canadian manufacturer using a through neck design: read through the discussion on the Gurian neck replacement.

Fascinating! Thanks. Reading now.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

Thanks for the answer Roger. I have already built a few acoustics myself, so I know how they are traditionally done. I didn't mean a neck-through body like for an electric, but rather a set-through neck. Meaning a deep square pocket that could be routed into the head block into which you would glue the corresponding male part which would be at the end of your neck shaft. So your final headblock would be kind of half block and half neck. You'd get more gluing surface (and maybe stability).

Do you mean "heel block" instead of "head block"???

If so, several Japanese guitars have been made with giant heel blocks with pockets routed out similar to a Fender electric neck pocket, and with bolt on necks with a plastick plate (similar to a truss rod cover) on the back of the guitar to hide the neck screws. I have seen a few of these in my repair shop, and the heel blocks have failed. Their failure was less a result of the basic design idea, but moreso in the execution of the small details. To describe with words would take too many of them (words, that is) so I'll pass for now. But the main hint is a missing upper bout under-the-fingerboard-extension brace. Others who have seen this design will likely know immediately to what I am referring.

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

Meaning a deep square pocket that could be routed into the head block into which you would glue the corresponding male part which would be at the end of your neck shaft. So your final headblock would be kind of half block and half neck. You'd get more gluing surface (and maybe stability).

I do that sort of but don't glue, I tilt it in. Works well.

Jim

[PhilQ]

[QUOTE=Ned Milburn;4188088]Do you mean "heel block" instead of "head block"???QUOTE]

EDIT: Actually I did mean headblock. The terminology sometimes gets confusing for me.

So the shaft of the neck would extend past the heel block the length of the headblock that's inside the guitar. Then you would route the top of the guitar and the headblock for a pocket of the size of that neck extension and glue it in the pocket routed out of the block. Like it is often done with electrics when they don't do full neck throughs.

A friend of mine who builds electrics suggested it yesterday and it seemed like an interesting idea. Presumably it would be stable and solid (large glueing surface), relatively easy to do (two rectangular parts), and maybe would contribute to a better transmission of vibrations throughout the guitar.

I may be missing something, but that's why I was curious to hear others' opinion on the subject.

[GeoffStGermaine]

David Myka does what I believe you're describing on his acoustics and archtop guitars:

http://mykaguitars.com/instruments/068/default.htm

http://mykaguitars.com/instruments/068/process.htm

I personally like this approach and I intend to do it on two flat top acoustics I'll be building.

[PhilQ]

Originally Posted by GeoffStGermaine

David Myka does what I believe you're describing on his acoustics and archtop guitars:

http://mykaguitars.com/instruments/068/default.htm

http://mykaguitars.com/instruments/068/process.htm

I personally like this approach and I intend to do it on two flat top acoustics I'll be building.

That does indeed look like what I was trying to explain (poorly it seems!). Thank you. I would likely still do more of a traditional heel, but the joint seems like it's what I was refering to.

Thank you!

[charles Tauber]

Norman guitars have done that since the 1970's, though with the joint square to the sides. Their necks have held adequately.

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

So the shaft of the neck would extend past the heel block the length of the headblock that's inside the guitar. Then you would route the top of the guitar and the headblock for a pocket of the size of that neck extension and glue it in the pocket routed out of the block. Like it is often done with electrics when they don't do full neck throughs.

How many neck-through electrics get their necks reset as they age?

Well, most of us believe that 100% of acoustic flat top guitars will need to have their necks removed for that process eventually.

The ideal "neck-through" acoustic guitar construction would be like the Spanish heel method, where the neck and block are integral. Also non-removable, and also largely a non-starter in the acoustic steel string world these days because of the neck reset issue.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

The ideal "neck-through" acoustic guitar construction would be like the Spanish heel method, where the neck and block are integral. Also non-removable, and also largely a non-starter in the acoustic steel string world these days because of the neck reset issue.

I used to build steel strings with a Spanish heel. I don't any longer. I've had no issues with classical guitars I've made that way, with the lower string tension imposed upon them.

[printer2]

I was under the impression that the need for a neck reset was because the body was being pulled towards the neck and the tension was folding the guitar body south of the head/heel block and the type of joint does not matter. Is the body the part that changes or is it the neck joint?

[John Arnold]

Is the body the part that changes or is it the neck joint?

The body distorts. It's not all neck block rotation, however. The top also tends to belly up.
A properly-fitted dovetail has more than adequate surface area for a solid joint.
What you are describing would require a larger neck block, which would add mass to that part of the guitar.