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  #31  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:07 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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People have issues. It's universal. I think Freud made us all want to blame our parents. FWIW I feel like I missed out by not having any father. I've had to figure a lot out on my own. If my father had been a bad guy maybe I'd have turned out differently but really we share DNA so I figure there's a lot of him in me. It's not all nature vs nurture.

Yes, I'm sure invoking psych speak. I'm a dad with two troubled sons. Maybe I'm an bad dad. I don't know, but I love them and when they're in pain of anguish so am I. All I can do is properly express that empathy.
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  #32  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:41 AM
AmericanEagle AmericanEagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
A good Dad can have such long lasting, wonderful influence; a bad Dad's can be just as long lasting.
This is very true.
My father died on 12-18-2001
I had thought the mental pain
and bad memories I have would
die with him, but they have not.
They have lingered-on to this day.

Please, for the young men and women on AGF,
I beg you, treat your children right. Any harm
you do to them will haunt them for life, trust me.
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  #33  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:51 AM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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My father was a functional (usually) alcoholic. My mother left with us when I was eight. No contact or involvement for years, and then sporadic contact when I got into late teens.
He told me one thing of value in my entire life - "always take care of your mother".
He said this repeatedly, as if acknowledging that he was not going to do it, so I must. I'm not sure that I needed to be told that, but she is now 81, legally blind and sitting twenty feet away from me as I type. I try to do my best.

Like many responses here, I learned what not do more than what to do, and my three young children will have a very different experience. I don't get why someone chooses to slowly kill themselves in dark and depressing corner bars, as opposed to spending time with family etc.
Some days I'm angry. Some days I'm depressed. Most days I just shake my head in disbelief.
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  #34  
Old 09-15-2017, 08:02 AM
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cotten cotten is offline
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(As an aside, I'm seeing a recurring theme of alcohol abuse in this thread. I'm now trying to help a 43-yr. old Dad who has this problem, multiplied by his chronic pain and recent addiction to pain killers. His alcohol abuse caused an accident, which caused... It has already cost him dearly, but there is a flicker of hope still. I'm glad!)

(Edit: And now Matthew Gruver, an 18-yr. old student from near where we once lived in Alpharetta, Georgia, has died from suspected alcohol poisoning, perhaps in fraterniity hazing, a month after he arrived at Louisiana State University. He wasn't a Dad, but evidently another victim of alcohol abuse.)

cotten

Last edited by cotten; 09-15-2017 at 11:14 AM.
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  #35  
Old 09-15-2017, 08:26 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero dies but one. That was probably my dad's favorite lesson. He was... well, he was something.
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  #36  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:21 AM
Nyghthawk Nyghthawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanEagle View Post
This is very true.
My father died on 12-18-2001
I had thought the mental pain
and bad memories I have would
die with him, but they have not.
They have lingered-on to this day.

Please, for the young men and women on AGF,
I beg you, treat your children right. Any harm
you do to them will haunt them for life, trust me.
Whatever one does as a father (or mother for that matter) echoes down through your children's lives and their children's lives. Years ago I read this:

On Children

by Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Love your children well.
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  #37  
Old 09-15-2017, 11:22 AM
JCave JCave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanEagle View Post
My father died on 12-18-2001
I had thought the mental pain
and bad memories I have would
die with him, but they have not.
They have lingered-on to this day.

Please, for the young men and women on AGF,
I beg you, treat your children right. Any harm
you do to them will haunt them for life, trust me.
The pain subsides as long as I don't think about it. Only within the past few years have I mentioned it to anybody. Not sure my wife believed me until she overheard a conversation between brothers. My voice usually remains very quiet when it comes to fatherly praise. Wasn't sure that cotten was expecting the other side of the coin replies, but he got 'em anyway.
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  #38  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:10 PM
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cotten cotten is offline
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Sure I did. See my subsequent posts. I was very blessed to be reared in a home with a Godly father and mother, but even as a small child I was very aware that not everyone had that same kind of home life. I know even more about "the other side of the coin" today than I did back then, but still feel that such a discussion is worthwhile.

So much so that I've also begun a "Lessons from Mom" thread. Feel free to post your own lessons learned, be they wonderfully heartwarming or totally gut wrenching.

Cotten
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  #39  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:22 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyghthawk View Post
Whatever one does as a father (or mother for that matter) echoes down through your children's lives and their children's lives. Years ago I read this:

On Children

by Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Love your children well.
Absolutely beautiful. Thanks, I haven't read Gibran since college. Up for a re-read.
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  #40  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:19 PM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
Absolutely beautiful. Thanks, I haven't read Gibran since college. Up for a re-read.
Me either I will have to re read it for certain
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  #41  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:56 PM
auggie242 auggie242 is offline
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Sorry. Can't agree with much of Gibran's ideas in that tract.
"Love your children well", yeah I'm good with that. The rest, not so much.
YMMV
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  #42  
Old 09-15-2017, 09:01 PM
FLRon FLRon is offline
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My dad died when I was just 12 years old, yet in that short amount of time he imparted two bits of wisdom in me that has never left me.

1. The value of hard work. My dad exemplified hard work and was determined that I would understand what a day's work was like. Living on a small farm there was no shortage of hard work. Many times I wanted to be playing baseball with my friends, but more often than not there was work to be done. By the time I was 10 I was doing a full day's work.

2. Never let anyone make you think you are less than. I remember walking downtown with my dad when a man approached us on the sidewalk. This man was wearing a suit and I immediately felt intimidated and looked away from the man. My dad saw me do this and stopped to inform me that I was never to lower my eyes again when anyone approached me because no man is better than any other man.

While I missed a lifetime of lessons when he was taken from me so soon, I still cherish the few memories I have of my dad.
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:56 AM
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cotten cotten is offline
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I was 14, and had gone out in the South Mississippi country with my family to visit my grandparents and cousins. After a while everybody wanted to leave to go visit someone I didn't know at all. I asked to stay behind so I could go fishing, something I seldom did. They finally agreed.

After they left, I didn't fish. I went out and checked, and yes, the keys were still in the '52 Ford that I had helped my Dad rebuild. At 14, I didn't yet know much about driving, much less on a 3-speed manual transmission. I learned that afternoon. I drove very cautiously at first, then gained a little confidence, all on dirt back roads, never seeing another person or car. When I got back to my grandparents' house, I carefully parked in exactly the same place, and even put a little gasoline in the tank from the lawnmower's gas can. Nobody would ever know.

Somehow, Dad did! He didn't blow up at me, but I was grounded for a while. Only later did I find out that before they had left that day, he had recorded the mileage on that old Ford, and parked it on top of a chicken feather. While I was gone, that feather must have blown away.

The lesson Dad quietly taught me that day was that lies will be revealed, that it is much easier to do right and not have to explain rather than do wrong and have to lie about it, eventually getting caught anyway.

cotten
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  #44  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:22 AM
DanleyJ DanleyJ is offline
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I had two Dads in my lifetime. My first Dad was a WWII vet, raised on a farm, who fought in the Pacific jungles and came home with recurring bouts with malaria. He stood 6’ 4” and was considered a very good looking young man in his day. He loved the Sons of the Pioneers, Eddie Arnold and Hank Williams. I have several pictures of him with various guitars. One with a black Gibson L-OO in his army uniform. The guitar looked very small in his lap. He had one of the first Gibson Les Paul gold tops (1952) and an old Dan Electro guitar amp. He owned a portable roller skating rink after the war that was set up under a huge tent with portable floor sections and some of those old “jet engine” looking heaters for winter skating. He died in an unfortunate accident just two months after I was born. Just one day before my brother’s 6th birthday. He left behind some old reel to reel recordings he made with another guitar player and an accordion player. My brother inherited the Les Paul and I got his Gibson Super 400 that arrived after his death in 1953 and I also got a Gibson lap steel from my Mother. I have no personal memories of my Dad but I’ve got tons of great stories over the years from my Aunts and Uncles and my cousins that knew him. My brother and I developed our love of guitars and music from the stories my Mother and relatives related to us. He was a good man and well loved.

My other Dad came along when I was 13. It was rough growing up without a Dad in a small town and I was somewhat resistant to a new man coming into my Mother’s life. He bought one of the two bars in our little town. Later, he sold the bar and went back to his love of truck driving. He was divorced with a 16 year old daughter who became a really great sister to me. He also was a WWII vet who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. Incredible man who put up with a lot of crap from me early on. He used to tell me “Don’t do as I do, do as I say”. And of course I’d shoot back with “Practice what you preach!” But believe me, he did practice what he preached. He led by quiet example and I learned so much just by observing him. He loved my Mother very much and stuck with her through many surgeries and her battle with cancer over the last 15 years of her life. He was a good Christian man and I have learned to apply much of what I learned from him in my own marriage and in raising my daughter. We were very close once I got over my young self and spent many long visits with him over the years. He drove a city bus until he retired at 90! He passed about 3 years ago at age 96 and I miss him every day. He really knew how to set an example.
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  #45  
Old 09-19-2017, 12:34 PM
Nyghthawk Nyghthawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanleyJ View Post
I had two Dads in my lifetime. My first Dad was a WWII vet, raised on a farm, who fought in the Pacific jungles and came home with recurring bouts with malaria. He stood 6’ 4” and was considered a very good looking young man in his day. He loved the Sons of the Pioneers, Eddie Arnold and Hank Williams. I have several pictures of him with various guitars. One with a black Gibson L-OO in his army uniform. The guitar looked very small in his lap. He had one of the first Gibson Les Paul gold tops (1952) and an old Dan Electro guitar amp. He owned a portable roller skating rink after the war that was set up under a huge tent with portable floor sections and some of those old “jet engine” looking heaters for winter skating. He died in an unfortunate accident just two months after I was born. Just one day before my brother’s 6th birthday. He left behind some old reel to reel recordings he made with another guitar player and an accordion player. My brother inherited the Les Paul and I got his Gibson Super 400 that arrived after his death in 1953 and I also got a Gibson lap steel from my Mother. I have no personal memories of my Dad but I’ve got tons of great stories over the years from my Aunts and Uncles and my cousins that knew him. My brother and I developed our love of guitars and music from the stories my Mother and relatives related to us. He was a good man and well loved.

My other Dad came along when I was 13. It was rough growing up without a Dad in a small town and I was somewhat resistant to a new man coming into my Mother’s life. He bought one of the two bars in our little town. Later, he sold the bar and went back to his love of truck driving. He was divorced with a 16 year old daughter who became a really great sister to me. He also was a WWII vet who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. Incredible man who put up with a lot of crap from me early on. He used to tell me “Don’t do as I do, do as I say”. And of course I’d shoot back with “Practice what you preach!” But believe me, he did practice what he preached. He led by quiet example and I learned so much just by observing him. He loved my Mother very much and stuck with her through many surgeries and her battle with cancer over the last 15 years of her life. He was a good Christian man and I have learned to apply much of what I learned from him in my own marriage and in raising my daughter. We were very close once I got over my young self and spent many long visits with him over the years. He drove a city bus until he retired at 90! He passed about 3 years ago at age 96 and I miss him every day. He really knew how to set an example.
Great story (and the one on the Mom thread too)! Often those that preach best do so without saying a word.
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