What's going on at Guild?

[Wade Hampton]

After HHP wrote:

Originally Posted by HHP

I don't understand the concept. They seem like good guitars but I wonder if the Guild brand will support guitars in this price range. They lack any historical association to Guild or Epiphone and are closer to a modern take of Gibson/Martin designs. I have to think they would do better to market and upgrade the traditional Guild designs like D-55 on down.

Watasha replied:

Originally Posted by Watasha

First off, the Orpheum series isn't a "modern take" on anything. They're meant to represent what Guild might have done if they had been around in the 1930's/'40's.

Well, given that they don't represent historical instruments that the company once built and is now reissuing, I don't see how you can DENY that they're a "modern take" on what Guild might have done 70 years ago, had the company been in existence then. They're a series of completely modern instruments built in a vintage-like style, presumably to take advantage of the current popularity of vintage reissues by competitors like Martin and Gibson.

Watasha continues:

Originally Posted by Watasha

I'm not sure why anytime any guitar maker does anything different they're accused of trying to be more like Martin or Gibson.

Well, maybe it's because they're trying to get a piece of that vintage reissue market by marketing a series of imaginary vintage-style guitars, built to emulate guitars during an imaginary era in Guild's history as a guitar company.

There's no shame in that - business is business, and if they can develop public interest in some high dollar guitars that way, more power to them. But my reaction when I first saw the Orpheum series Guilds listed in some catalogs was: "Those sure don't look like any Guild guitars I've ever seen..."

Because they don't. They are, indeed, more Martin- and Gibson-like in appearance than Guild-like. So it's not a groundless accusation.

Watasha concludes:

Originally Posted by Watasha

Secondly, I'm not sure why you wouldn't think that the Guild brand would support guitars in that price range. Guild is a blue blood name in factory built guitars & the guitars speak for themselves. Lastly, how exactly would you "upgrade" the D55? More abalone?

When I first read your post, Watasha, where you wrote that

Originally Posted by Watasha

Guild is a blue blood name in factory built guitars...

I scanned it as "Guild is a blue COLLAR name in factory built guitars..."

Which is more how I have always perceived them. For a lot of us, they were the first professional quality guitars we acquired because they were the first professional quality guitars we could AFFORD - Guilds have always represented a rock solid value as a working musician's instrument, usually at around 15-20% less than a Martin or Gibson made of similar materials would cost.

Yes, they've always had some fancy ones like the D55. But for a lot of us, the D25 is a more representative instrument.

HHP is asking the the same questions I wondered about when I first saw the photos of their new high end Orpheum product line. Again, I say this not out of any hostility to Guild guitars - I've owned a lot of them over the years, and still have a maple jumbo that I love. But the Guild Orpheums don't look like any Guilds I've ever seen, they don't strike any sparks deep within MY soul, and like HHP I question whether the novelty of a product line made up of guitars Guild MIGHT have made had they been in existence during the 1930's is going to inspire many guitarists to spend that kind of money.

There are bound to be some Guild completists who will spend the money, I have no doubt. But I have trouble believing that - at that price point - these guitars will catch fire with other less committed Guild guitar fans.

The problem I have is with the price, not the guitar designs themselves. If Guild were to introduce those guitar designs at the same price levels as their other guitars, they look cool enough and probably sound good enough that I'm sure they could sell well. But not at the six to seven thousand dollar price range: I just don't see it.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Watasha]

Wade,

Many of your points are well taken & you certainly have more experience than me regarding this subject. Here's my take: Where you might look at Guilds as workhorses, I came from a different generation. Guild guitars to me & the musician's I know inspire the same reverence as Martin, Gibson etc. As far as the price, the Orpheum guitars are basically custom shop guitars. I daresay almost anybody on this forum would say the price range (more like $3,800.00 in my experience) would be a steal from Martin, Gibson or Taylor. Are you saying that same instrument isn't worth that asking price because it says Guild on the headstock? If so then you would think I got taken to the cleaners on my D55. That said, the Orpheum guitars actually aren't my cup of tea visually. As you have said, they don't look like Guild's to me. They don't look like Martin's either. They also don't look like Taylors...which is EXACTLY what the Martin GPCPA4 & some other new Martins look like. What say you on the fact that Martin made a line of blatantly Taylor inspired guitars? Anyway, I think it all comes down to the sound. Do they sound like Guilds? THAT is a far more important question IMO.

Wade I very much value your opinion & insight in this forum. I hope I didn't come off wrong in this post my friend.

[JohnW63]

I assume they look like old Gibsons, style wise, because of the new guy in town who USED to work for Gibson, but now designs for Guild. ( I've drawn a blank on his name...grrr. )

I have no trouble with any guitar making taking a stab with a new design or shape or bracing pattern. If they think THAT is the combination that sells guitars. That is the bottom line for any manufacturer. Of course each one SHOULD stay "true" to the basic tone ideas of their brand. If Guild wants to build an old school acoustic, that they might have built, had they been around at the time, that's just fine. Heck, it might even sound BETTER than those guitars that WERE built back then.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

I assume they look like old Gibsons, style wise, because of the new guy in town who USED to work for Gibson, but now designs for Guild. ( I've drawn a blank on his name...grrr. )

Not sure if they will look like old Gibsons but they might just have a lot of bling.

[Wade Hampton]

Hey, Watasha, it's all just friendly discussion. You certainly haven't offended me by anything you've written, either on this thread or anyplace else.

As for the visual appearance of the Guild Orpheum guitars, the pictures of them that I've seen remind me as much of instruments built by the Larson Brothers as anything else, especially this model:

As for the price range, I went and checked that, and you're correct, the street price is closer to 38 hundred than to the six to seven grand I thought it was.

So maybe the market will embrace them after all. I still have my doubts, but only time will tell....


whm

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

I assume they look like old Gibsons, style wise, because of the new guy in town who USED to work for Gibson, but now designs for Guild. ( I've drawn a blank on his name...grrr. )

Ren Ferguson is the gentleman's name.

He helped to save the Gibson acoustic brand name from dropping further into a second-tier quality perception for mass produced acoustics, after it had floundered against Taylor's success and Martin's continued success. Mr. Ferguson's build quality efforts (and Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz's hardball dealer marketing strategy) pushed the Gibson brand quality perception back up into the area occupied by Martin and Taylor.

There are several listed on eBay and they cost between 3 & 4 grand. Nice looking guitars for sure.

[Bill Ashton]

Quart, to answer you question (sorry I am so late), one of the first things apparent when we first walked in the door was a rack of drop-shoulded bodies, sans necks. Those were unquestionably Orpheums, as its the only drop-shoulder they have. Did not see any finished (not that they weren't there) Orpheums; the other body styles are too similar to the F30's or 50's so probably could have missed them...

Other thing about them we learned, the Orpheums are the only Guild assembled with hide-glue. Tite-bond is the normal adhesive they use on all other guitars.