Gibson tube amps made in California

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by seannx

Since Gibson bought Mesa, the employees who previously worked for Mesa are now Gibson's. I live near Petaluma, and know someone who worked for Mesa for many years, and is continuing to work for Gibson at the same facility. Buying Mesa was an easy way for Gibson to acquire an amp making business to build Gibson branded amps.

So, the factory door now says Gibson on it, no longer Mesa Engineering?

[dnf777]

Seems to me that while there are still purists among us who insist on real tube amps, every shop I've visited lately is full of tube amps people are trying to off-load. Without a solid heritage to rely upon, I don't see a corporate rebranding effort selling many heavy tube amps these days. They may be excellent amps, but I give them two years of production, tops. JMO

[Doctor7]

In the late 90's to early 2000's, Gibson (by then, owned by the infamous Henry) acquired Trace Elliott and asked them to design amplifiers using the Gibson brand, and the Goldtone and Super Goldtone amps came into the picture, being endorsed by the likes of Joe Perry (Aerosmith).

I actually own two Gibson amps: a 1957 GA9, and a 2001 Super Goldtone GA30RV (10"+12", and the rare 5 button footswitch).

The GA9 is a very special sounding amp, and in combination with my 1957 ES-125, they have that old jazz sound in spades! But curiously, the amp does not overdrive... it is always kind of clean, and with the volume maxed, it sounds blotted, so I prefer its sound with the volume at 2-3, and use a drive pedal for dirt (it takes pedals very well).

The newer GA30RV is a VOX AC30 inspired beast. Very heavy and over built to endure the most drastic abuse, and boy, it does sound fantastic!

I can clearly see where Gibson is heading now and I welcome this new addition. I also hope they will now sell replacement parts (those logos and handles are so difficult to get for the old vintage amps).
Obviously, they are PCB built, but there is nothing bad about it if its done well, and Mesa clearly have a history in doing that.

[imwjl]

FYI. I still think these new Falcons are neat. After a Gibson/Mesa dealer said except for weight I have what they do and more I put on my delay gratification hat and dug into all the Lone Star Special settings more than ever, and also used the owner manual pages templates for recording settings. Then I looked at used prices at a few sources.

My conclusion is anyone here complaining about the price or "one trick pony" aspects probably has a LSS for sale near them for less money. What might really keep me at status quo is recording the other subtitles the other Mesas can do. For several years I've mostly set it with a clean and drive between the channels. I feel silly that I was not giving more consideration to how the two channels also have the completely different reverb settings, and you can also use the "solo" and not just drive in addition to gain. Very funny to have forgotten what I already own.

If my son wants my Princeton Reverb I would still seriously consider the Falcons.

One more element in "delay gratification" is I spent more time exploring more boutique as well as bargain stuff. There's absolutely fantastic stuff but seriously expensive.

Basically I still feel these Falcons are great but have new or reborn appreciation for some other Mesa models whether current new ones or the used market that has the Express line, both Lone Star families and others.

Also new or refreshed understanding for why some have a lot of amps.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by imwjl

FYI. I still think these new Falcons are neat. After a Gibson/Mesa dealer said except for weight I have what they do and more I put on my delay gratification hat and dug into all the Lone Star Special settings more than ever, and also used the owner manual pages templates for recording settings. Then I looked at used prices at a few sources.

My conclusion is anyone here complaining about the price or "one trick pony" aspects probably has a LSS for sale near them for less money. What might really keep me at status quo is recording the other subtitles the other Mesas can do. For several years I've mostly set it with a clean and drive between the channels. I feel silly that I was not giving more consideration to how the two channels also have the completely different reverb settings, and you can also use the "solo" and not just drive in addition to gain. Very funny to have forgotten what I already own.

If my son wants my Princeton Reverb I would still seriously consider the Falcons.

One more element in "delay gratification" is I spent more time exploring more boutique as well as bargain stuff. There's absolutely fantastic stuff but seriously expensive.

Basically I still feel these Falcons are great but have new or reborn appreciation for some other Mesa models whether current new ones or the used market that has the Express line, both Lone Star families and others.

Also new or refreshed understanding for why some have a lot of amps.

As I noted I too bought a used Lone Star Special and it was the specifically the weight factor that compelled me to sell it. And If I had bought a Head instead of combo I would most likely still own it.

Now I understand the notion and attraction of used price vs new for any particular object. But I am unclear as to why anyone would use used prices compared to new prices for different objects as a price complaint criteria for the new price ?? Seems to me that is simply an apples to kumquat situation and if you are not comparing new price to new price it is false equivalence and faulty logic

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by KevWind

As I noted I too bought a used Lone Star Special and it was the specifically the weight factor that compelled me to sell it. And If I had bought a Head instead of combo I would most likely still own it.

Now I under the notion and attraction of used price vs new for any particular object. But I am unclear as to why anyone would use used prices compared to new prices for different objects as a price complaint criteria for the new price ?? Seems to me that is simply an apples to kumquat situation and if you are not comparing new price to new price it is false equivalence and faulty logic

Please don't misunderstand me on used. I know that distinction well. What is goin on here is realizing for now it is a sunk cost, and what might be my own diminishing returns for any changes I make.

It also just stood out to me from the shopping and trying stuff all that a few Mesa models do, and where people do have a price barrier they could be an option worth considering.

If my Princeton Reverb becomes our son's in long term I'll absolutely be shopping for a lighter tube amp.

I still stand firm on thinking these new Falcons are good in numerous ways among the choices we have for new amps.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Doctor7

In the late 90's to early 2000's, Gibson (by then, owned by the infamous Henry) acquired Trace Elliott and asked them to design amplifiers using the Gibson brand, and the Goldtone and Super Goldtone amps came into the picture, being endorsed by the likes of Joe Perry (Aerosmith).

I actually own two Gibson amps: a 1957 GA9, and a 2001 Super Goldtone GA30RV (10"+12", and the rare 5 button footswitch).

The GA9 is a very special sounding amp, and in combination with my 1957 ES-125, they have that old jazz sound in spades! But curiously, the amp does not overdrive... it is always kind of clean, and with the volume maxed, it sounds blotted, so I prefer its sound with the volume at 2-3, and use a drive pedal for dirt (it takes pedals very well).

The newer GA30RV is a VOX AC30 inspired beast. Very heavy and over built to endure the most drastic abuse, and boy, it does sound fantastic!

I can clearly see where Gibson is heading now and I welcome this new addition. I also hope they will now sell replacement parts (those logos and handles are so difficult to get for the old vintage amps).
Obviously, they are PCB built, but there is nothing bad about it if its done well, and Mesa clearly have a history in doing that.

I had one of the 2x12 30 Watt Class A GA30RVS amps

That thing was a beast.

90lbs, you didn't want to move it. EVER.

But, By God it sounded great!

[67goat]

Originally Posted by seannx

Since Gibson bought Mesa, the employees who previously worked for Mesa are now Gibson's. I live near Petaluma, and know someone who worked for Mesa for many years, and is continuing to work for Gibson at the same facility. Buying Mesa was an easy way for Gibson to acquire an amp making business to build Gibson branded amps.

When one company buys another, the purchased company doesn't automatically cease to exist. I mean, if we are going that route, there are no more Gibson guitars. KKR owns Gibson, so....

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes they claim "hand wired " but that is a bit of word play. The one video I saw the 4 pre-amp tubes are mounted in a PCB So I suppose they are talking about all the other wires to and from the board , to the pot controls etc. and possibly the power tubes are hand wired hard to tell as they were in a metal cage. Mesa uses the same verbiage "Hand wired" and uses much the same construction design (obviously being a Randall Smith design )
I had a Mesa Boogie Lone Star Special 1 X12 Combo which was one of best sounding amps I have heard.. But it was simply too heavy for me to lug around

Personally I don't see an issue using PCB's as opposed to a true point to point hand wired amp, which in that 15- 20 watt range in the US is likely to be at or above $2k

Like all Mesa amps, the PCBs are wave soldered. So even if the parts are placed on the CB by hand, these amps don't match what anybody would call hand-wired (well, except Gibson/Mesa).

Does that mean they are inherently better or worse? No. But both hand-wired and PTP are features that, justified or not, are premium and can command higher prices. In that sense, yes, the prices of these Gibson amps are inflated using deceptive marketing.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by 67goat

When one company buys another, the purchased company doesn't automatically cease to exist. I mean, if we are going that route, there are no more Gibson guitars. KKR owns Gibson, so....

That might actually be a good thing...

Originally Posted by 67goat

Like all Mesa amps, the PCBs are wave soldered. So even if the parts are placed on the CB by hand, these amps don't match what anybody would call hand-wired (well, except Gibson/Mesa).

Does that mean they are inherently better or worse? No. But both hand-wired and PTP are features that, justified or not, are premium and can command higher prices. In that sense, yes, the prices of these Gibson amps are inflated using deceptive marketing.

Yeah, the PCB are wave-soldered (I watched it in action in '07 when we got a great tour of the joint ), but everything else is very much hand-wired.

[67goat]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

That might actually be a good thing...

Fair enough. Is current Gibson worse than Norlin Gibson?

Yeah, the PCB are wave-soldered (I watched it in action in '07 when we got a great tour of the joint ), but everything else is very much hand-wired.

Everything else is not very much of anything. It's the same process Mesa has been using since long before Gibson bought them. They didn't start using "hand-wired" until after Gibson though. It's strictly a money grab aimed at those who know buzz words but don't understand them.

That being said, these are priced a little high, but not ridiculous. The Falcon 20 is similar to a 12" Princeton combo that is assembled in the US and has power scaling. Are those last two things worth $300 over the Fender? Some people will say yes.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by 67goat

When one company buys another, the purchased company doesn't automatically cease to exist. I mean, if we are going that route, there are no more Gibson guitars. KKR owns Gibson, so....



Like all Mesa amps, the PCBs are wave soldered. So even if the parts are placed on the CB by hand, these amps don't match what anybody would call hand-wired (well, except Gibson/Mesa).

Does that mean they are inherently better or worse? No. But both hand-wired and PTP are features that, justified or not, are premium and can command higher prices. In that sense, yes, the prices of these Gibson amps are inflated using deceptive marketing.

While I agree the use of term hand wired is pure hyperbole I am not sure it actually rises to the level of outright "deception"
Given that technically speaking while the term "point to point" does automatically preclude the use of a PCB ,,, the term 'hand wired" does not. Now it may be assumed to mean that, but that is subjective assumption

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by 67goat

Fair enough. Is current Gibson worse than Norlin Gibson?

The two '78 RD Artist guitars I had were excellent.

Originally Posted by 67goat

...They didn't start using "hand-wired" until after Gibson though...

So, it's a Gibson marketing term, then.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by mtdmind

Gibson tube amps made in Petaluma California are coming out. They use 6L6 and 12AX7 tubes . That is good news because I have been afraid those tubes would disappear. My Princeton Reverb uses those tubes.

Thanks to guitar players and audiophiles, there's a small but steady market for tubes. That means that while far fewer companies make tubes, the ones that do continue to do good business.

[67goat]

Originally Posted by KevWind

While I agree the use of term hand wired is pure hyperbole I am not sure it actually rises to the level of outright "deception"
Given that technically speaking while the term "point to point" does automatically preclude the use of a PCB ,,, the term 'hand wired" does not. Now it may be assumed to mean that, but that is subjective assumption

For some, hand-wired does preclude PCB (but not turret or other boards). For me, if most of the amp is wave soldered, then it isn't hand wired. It might be hand placed parts, it might be hand assembled, but not hand wired. Even if it is PCB, the solder connections would need to be by hand at the very least for me.

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

The two '78 RD Artist guitars I had were excellent.
So, it's a Gibson marketing term, then.

I have two Gibsons from the last couple years, and they both seem to have missed the QC issues that others find. And I didn't even have to run the racks.

And yes, I would put the marketing on Gibson rather than Mesa.