Taylor reset neck. Difference between shims: 6 or 10?

[nonost]

First post here!

I have a Taylor GS Mini that needed a neck reset. Action at 12th fret was around .125". I got a pack of shims directly from Taylor. The shims the guitar had from fabric were 12 & 2. So we have a difference of 10. I read on some Taylor official pdf made for training or something like that, that the difference between shims should be kept at 6. But in my guitar, instead of 6, the difference between shims is 10.

I have shims to use either the 6 difference or the 10 one. I use the heel shim to set the proper angle & action, the 22 heel shim sets the action at around 0.90". Thats great, now I can use the 16 extension shim or the 12 one. Anyone with experience regarding this issue?

Cheers!

[John Arnold]

You need to use the one that keeps the fingerboard extension in the same plane as the rest of the fingerboard. If that was the case before the reset, then the 10 difference should work.

[mirwa]

So disclaimer, I am a warranty repairer for Taylor, ideally you should have your guitar looked at by someone who is Taylor authorized if it is still in the warranty period.

That being said, proceed at your own comfort and risk level

A 6 split is the ideal factory spec, however wood is wood, so some times it moves under tension.

Set the neck heel in place do a 6 split and see how the fingerboard extension looks, adjust the fingerboard shim only to raise or lower just the tongue, it is acceptable to go to a 4 or 8 split .

A 10 split is a bit large and may be a symptom of other issues

Steve

[fazool]

no......the *DIFFERENCE* has to stay they same.

For example if yours were 10 & 4 (difference of 6) you can change the angle to 14 & 8 (moving everything but keeping same difference).


You must keep the same difference - that is from the manufacturing tolerance between the surfaces.

[nikpearson]

Originally Posted by mirwa

So disclaimer, I am a warranty repairer for Taylor, ideally you should have your guitar looked at by someone who is Taylor authorized if it is still in the warranty period.

That being said, proceed at your own comfort and risk level

A 6 split is the ideal factory spec, however wood is wood, so some times it moves under tension.

Set the neck heel in place do a 6 split and see how the fingerboard extension looks, adjust the fingerboard shim only to raise or lower just the tongue, it is acceptable to go to a 4 or 8 split .

A 10 split is a bit large and may be a symptom of other issues

Steve

When I spoke with Taylor they said to maintain the same difference as the existing shims. In my case, with a GS Mini this was 16 & 6, so also a difference of 10 from the original post. Replacing with a 20 & 10 pair has allowed for a perfect action with ideal string height above soundboard and good string break angle.

Steve, you are clearly very knowledgeable about Taylor instruments. I build classical guitars mainly, so have some related skills and knowledge, but lack familiarity with the NT neck. The guidance document Taylor sent me referenced laying a straightedge on top of the frets to assess against the bridge. With the original shims under string tension the neck was underset. To get the action and string height I was looking for required what appeared to be a significant overset with the strings off, and a slight overset under string tension.

Lastly, do you use wood putty to fill any small gaps? Taylor used to recommend a particular non-setting oil-based putty, but that is very hard to source in the U.K.

Would appreciate your thoughts around this.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

The guidance document Taylor sent me referenced laying a straightedge on top of the frets to assess against the bridge. With the original shims under string tension the neck was underset. To get the action and string height I was looking for required what appeared to be a significant overset with the strings off, and a slight overset under string tension.

In addition to getting Steve's thoughts on your question, I wanted to add that I've seen several posters say the correct way/place to apply the straightedge on a Taylor to determine over/under-set is at the E/e strings (nearer the edges of the bridge), not the middle. Something to do with Taylor's bridges' tops not following the fretboard radius??

[nikpearson]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

In addition to getting Steve's thoughts on your question, I wanted to add that I've seen several posters say the correct way/place to apply the straightedge on a Taylor to determine over/under-set is at the E/e strings (nearer the edges of the bridge), not the middle. Something to do with Taylor's bridges' tops not following the fretboard radius??

Taylor’s bridge upper surface is not radiused at all so where you place the straightedge would make a difference.

Looking at the document Taylor sent me in the example the straightedge is on the bass end. The radius of the fingerboard and frets mean the the straightedge will be lower at the edges of the fingerboard.

The NT neck is an excellent piece of design and engineering. So simple to tweak the neck angle precisely with a few basic tools and the right shims. It took me less than half an hour and it was my first time adjusting a Taylor neck.

You do still need to figure string tension into the equation.

[John Arnold]

The straightedge is just a general guide. The terms 'overset' and 'underset' are conditional.
Give me the action height, saddle height and bridge thickness.......and leave the straightedge in the drawer.
I only use one to gauge how much change at the saddle is actually happening during a reset. If I have the desired saddle height and action, I couldn't care less where the straightedge ends up. To be clear, not everyone prefers the same action, so an action of 5/64" instead of 7/64" will increase the optimal straightedge at the bridge by 1/16". Not a trivial amount.
Also, if a 45 degree string break angle across the saddle is considered ideal, the bridge design, particularly the distance from the saddle to the bridge pins, will change the target saddle height.
Thus, the best course is to measure action and saddle height before the reset. Loosen the strings and take the straightedge measurement. Figure how much action change is desired, and double it. Figure how much the saddle will be raised. Add the two to the initial straightedge measurement. That is the desired unstrung straightedge measurement after the reset. It may or may not intersect the top surface of the bridge.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

, do you use wood putty to fill any small gaps? Taylor used to recommend a particular non-setting oil-based putty, but that is very hard to source in the U.K.

The putty that taylor recommends can be ordered through amazon, thats where I did my last order, I use to just use an off the shelf water ased wood putty from the local hardware store and then mix that with fretboard oil and then push it into the gaps and wipe excess away. The fretboard oil keeps it flexible in a small way

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

The guidance document Taylor sent me referenced laying a straightedge on top of the frets to assess against the bridge. With the original shims under string tension the neck was underset. To get the action and string height I was looking for required what appeared to be a significant overset with the strings off, and a slight overset under string tension.

Couple of ways to do the taylor neck, the way i do it takes a little longer than the standard way, but I also have to fix necks that have other issues other than the neck angle.

Process - I just fit a heel shim no fretboard extension and with a straight edge over shoot the bridge by a hair, once i have my heel shim correct I then do a 6 split and fit the fretboard shim, if the fretboard dips down or dips up over the body with the shim fitted then i will tweak it in either direction by an additional 2 split, so that makes it a 4 or 8 split, then I string the guitar up and let it sit for half an hr and recheck, sometimes yes I will adjust the shim in one direction or the other subject to how it sat strung up, then i shape the saddle if needed to meet warranty specs.

If it needs more than the 4 or 8 split, i typically liase with taylor directly on what they would like me to do as most guitars i get are under warranty still.

If you have a guitar with a 10 split and its working perfect, then yes stick with the 10

I have had guitars come in where the fretboard has slipped a little with heat over the neck attachment area, had people fit the wrong shims and then refret the guitar, had guitars that have had too heavy of strings fitted, have found hand sanded shims that have been used to set the necks, sometimes done well sometimes done extremely poorley, the list of reasons why its come in fora neck reset are endless, hence whi i start with just a heel adjustment only

[nikpearson]

Really helpful to get extra detail from someone with your experience.

[nonost]

Thank you all. Great info!

I will check the straightedge whit and without the shim extension as mirwa suggested and try some values.

nikpearson, it's good to hear some other GS Minis with a 10 split difference. I'm trying the 6 & 10 difference, I hope I can "see" the effect!

Cheers!

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by nonost

Thank you all. Great info!

I will check the straightedge whit and without the shim extension as mirwa suggested and try some values.

If you do it the way I do it, do not put strings on without the fretboard extension shim and extension bolt in place, my way is a diagnostic process for neck issues