Considering Taylor 150e

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by EllenGtrGrl

I had a Taylor 150e for a couple of years (it was the guitar I played in the church band). It was a decent guitar IMO - I've had better, and I've had worse 12-strings. The main reason I got rid of it (and the Taylor AD27 I also had at the time), was due to me realizing that Taylors have necks that are too thin for my playing comfort (I always wound up with a sore left hand after playing my Taylors). As long as you don't mind the relatively thin neck profile Taylors have, a 150e is a guitar that'll be fine for your 12-string needs.

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Funny you should say that. After playing the 150e in the store, I remember thinking the neck was way smaller than my old college days Yamaha. It was difficult for me to make the cords using the first and second frets because the string pairs were so close together. I'm going to take a look again at the Yamahas.

I've never played in a church band, but I was forced into leading worship for a month or two with my six string. I warned them that I didn't have a decent singing voice,but they were in a real jam.

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by waterboy

I have just been in the market for a 12 string in that price range, having looked around a bit it came down to a choice between a used Taylor 355 and a new guild 1512. The guild nosed it, basically because I liked it in the shop and the Taylor needed work.
I’m happy with the guild.
I did try the 150, but I don’t get on well with dreads, I preferred the sound of the Guild.
BTW, guild was recently bought by Cordoba. Cordoba knows how to make a good guitar, my classical is a Cordoba and it’s fabulous at the price, so I had no concerns.

What about the Guild sound makes it sound better than the 150? I spoke with a repair guy today who said to avoid Guild because they had problems that would surface in a year or two.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

What about the Guild sound makes it sound better than the 150? I spoke with a repair guy today who said to avoid Guild because they had problems that would surface in a year or two.

This is complete subjectivity. Remember, it sounds better to him; enough said. But he is not you. No one is you. Reading sonic descriptions of a guitar is borderline futile. Not only because of the inherent, inescapable subjectivity of what constitutes "good" tone, but also how does one accurately describe a sound with verbiage? May I suggest you rest your decision on your ears and end your "search" through words.

Now as for "problems" with a guitar, Guild or otherwise, you must absolutely understand that a 12-er is strung under huge tension that dwarfs that of a 6, so this is why for decades --decades that I have played and tried 12ers, and loved but never would buy-- 12-string guits never stuck with me because they played sucky! Action goes high, geometry changes over time, many back in the day had to be tuned down 1/2, baseball bat neck, simply too many compromises to compensate for its task.

Enter Taylor with the NT neck and stellar execution and QC. Yes, finally a 12 that played stupid well, finally a 12 that wasn't rife with compromises, finally a 12 that you can "bank on" will maintain its geometry so it plays great yeeears down the line because it is designed and built impeccably well. Fanboy speak? ...not from me as I am tough on gear that doesn't suit my needs. But my 12string GS from 2008 not only plays as well as it did day one, it outplays anything that I have ever tried today. This simply has not been the case for other 12ers that I've had my hands on. Sure, small sample and merely one man's experience. But everyone here is exactly that: one person sharing his experience. So take it all in for what it is

Edward

[waterboy]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

What about the Guild sound makes it sound better than the 150? I spoke with a repair guy today who said to avoid Guild because they had problems that would surface in a year or two.

It had more of the sound that I was looking for. What I hear in my head when I think 12 string is Supertramp, which is what I was looking for. It’s a preference rather than a value judgement. Also dreads just don’t fit me, both of my big guitars are jumbos.
I took my Guild to my tech for a setup and he gave it a clean bill of health, but yes, you never can tell what will happen in 2, 5, or 10 years, so hopefully the warranty will be honored if there is a problem.

[Puddleglum]

Ive been wanting a 12-string for a long time. I really like the older Taylors but don’t trust that the necks are straight unless I can see it in person. Ive seen a lot of 12s over the years that have been strung up heavier than they should have been and kept in standard tuning. That’s a death-blow to any decent 12-string. I like some of what I’ve heard online from the 150, but I’ve also played some in person that seriously underwhelmed. Some of the cheaper Guilds have sounded good but they *felt* sort of cheap and toylike to me. They left me wondering if they’d hold up for the long haul (I keep stuff for a long time).

[seaveez]

My $.02 ... my 12-string journey started leaning toward the Taylor 150e (namely because my brother-in-law had one, and I liked the way it played). I went to a local shop with a few used guitars; an accomplished guitar playing friend met me there.

I played a Taylor 150e, Guild F-1512 and Guild F-512. While I really liked the Taylor’s playability. To me, the action was perfect and this one had the satin-maple neck. However, I just don’t like the sound/tone.

I liked the sound/tone of the Guilds … especially the F-512 (but with a $3000+ price difference, I would hope so). Also, the neck on the F-512 just felt a lot better. The F-512 has a 12” radius vs 16”.

As it turned out, my friend offered to sell me one of his 12-strings, which I did, an Eastman AC630ce. Like the Guild F-512, it has a spruce top and maple back/sides. It’s also jumbo shaped and has a 12” neck radius. (Love it, and highly recommend taking a look at Eastman, if you have a chance.)

[phavriluk]

Originally Posted by edward993

This is complete subjectivity. Remember, it sounds better to him; enough said. But he is not you. No one is you. Reading sonic descriptions of a guitar is borderline futile. Not only because of the inherent, inescapable subjectivity of what constitutes "good" tone, but also how does one accurately describe a sound with verbiage? May I suggest you rest your decision on your ears and end your "search" through words.

Now as for "problems" with a guitar, Guild or otherwise, you must absolutely understand that a 12-er is strung under huge tension that dwarfs that of a 6, so this is why for decades --decades that I have played and tried 12ers, and loved but never would buy-- 12-string guits never stuck with me because they played sucky! Action goes high, geometry changes over time, many back in the day had to be tuned down 1/2, baseball bat neck, simply too many compromises to compensate for its task.

Enter Taylor with the NT neck and stellar execution and QC. Yes, finally a 12 that played stupid well, finally a 12 that wasn't rife with compromises, finally a 12 that you can "bank on" will maintain its geometry so it plays great yeeears down the line because it is designed and built impeccably well. Fanboy speak? ...not from me as I am tough on gear that doesn't suit my needs. But my 12string GS from 2008 not only plays as well as it did day one, it outplays anything that I have ever tried today. This simply has not been the case for other 12ers that I've had my hands on. Sure, small sample and merely one man's experience. But everyone here is exactly that: one person sharing his experience. So take it all in for what it is

Edward

It ain't solely aboit sound. Build quality plays a huge role.

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by edward993

This is complete subjectivity. Remember, it sounds better to him; enough said. But he is not you. No one is you. Reading sonic descriptions of a guitar is borderline futile. Not only because of the inherent, inescapable subjectivity of what constitutes "good" tone, but also how does one accurately describe a sound with verbiage? May I suggest you rest your decision on your ears and end your "search" through words.

Now as for "problems" with a guitar, Guild or otherwise, you must absolutely understand that a 12-er is strung under huge tension that dwarfs that of a 6, so this is why for decades --decades that I have played and tried 12ers, and loved but never would buy-- 12-string guits never stuck with me because they played sucky! Action goes high, geometry changes over time, many back in the day had to be tuned down 1/2, baseball bat neck, simply too many compromises to compensate for its task.

Enter Taylor with the NT neck and stellar execution and QC. Yes, finally a 12 that played stupid well, finally a 12 that wasn't rife with compromises, finally a 12 that you can "bank on" will maintain its geometry so it plays great yeeears down the line because it is designed and built impeccably well. Fanboy speak? ...not from me as I am tough on gear that doesn't suit my needs. But my 12string GS from 2008 not only plays as well as it did day one, it outplays anything that I have ever tried today. This simply has not been the case for other 12ers that I've had my hands on. Sure, small sample and merely one man's experience. But everyone here is exactly that: one person sharing his experience. So take it all in for what it is

Edward

You're right. Ok..going on what's left of my hearing, the 150e sounds too jangley...BUT...
I like the idea of durability.-

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I think, at this point (my decision making remains a bit fluid) I'm going to end up going with the Yamaha. It sounds less like a harpsicord and a tad bit warmer. Still have some research to do, though. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the advice of showroom salesmen who have a financial interest in my choice.

[leew3]

[QUOTE=12FanMan;7353422]

Originally Posted by leew3

I have a Taylor 150e (Sapele rather than the current walnut B/S) with the ES1 9v system in it. I play it at dozens of gigs each year in a duo and it does the job well.As others have noted, it is treble sounding to an extend acoustically. When plugged in, moving the bass eq on it to around the 1 o'clock position easily compensates for this. I consistently get compliments about how good it sounds so my experience runs quite counter to some of the responses above. Here's a link
for one on Reverb at a great price. YMMV
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I clicked on the link, but saw no price. Since I don't own an amp, I won't be able to dial up the bass.

I was referencing my experience with this guitar, not prescribing what you should do. You now have dozens of opinions from this thread so I expect you'll find something to your liking.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

You're right. Ok..going on what's left of my hearing, the 150e sounds too jangley...BUT...
I like the idea of durability.-

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I think, at this point (my decision making remains a bit fluid) I'm going to end up going with the Yamaha. It sounds less like a harpsicord and a tad bit warmer. Still have some research to do, though. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the advice of showroom salesmen who have a financial interest in my choice.

I wholly agree about sales-floor advice ...ugh!

You can try the 150 with PBs as they are typically strung with 80/20s. The PBs make a marked difference as 80/20s are pretty bright on their own, let alone on a 12.

Another option is tune a full step down and use medium gauge PBs. I did this with an old 655 long ago (was an early2000s Taylor Jumbo) and I loved how it "dejangled" all those octaves and really made the lows/ mid-lows deeper and more punchy.

Food for thought

Edward

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by edward993

I wholly agree about sales-floor advice ...ugh!

You can try the 150 with PBs as they are typically strung with 80/20s. The PBs make a marked difference as 80/20s are pretty bright on their own, let alone on a 12.

Another option is tune a full step down and use medium gauge PBs. I did this with an old 655 long ago (was an early2000s Taylor Jumbo) and I loved how it "dejangled" all those octaves and really made the lows/ mid-lows deeper and more punchy.

Food for thought

Edward

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I'm a recreational player, not a musician. This may sound strange, but...knowing little or nothing about music...I just tuned the base strings on my old (brand new at the time) Yamaha 12 as low as they would go and still produce a good sound. I did it entirely by ear...back when I had ears. Then, I tuned the rest of them as you would normally have tuned a guitar at that time (1973). I dont know how far down I ended up tuning it, but Im sure it was low enough not to damage the neck. Maybe that's where I got the thing to cut some of the jangle. I could produce the jangle, if I wanted to, by strumming/plucking closer to the bridge. Anyway, as a novice..it worked for me. Maybe that primitive method will work fifty years later.

You(or someone) said the jumbo just didnt fit your body, so you preferred dreads. I like the sound the jumbos produce, but I don't know how much different they are from the dreads' sound. I'm pretty big...6'3 285...so I don't think the jumbo would be too clumsy in my fat-guy recliner. Is the thinner waist of the dread the only or main difference between jumbos and the dreads?

Finally, regarding strings, what are "PB's"?

[edward993]

Actually, it's the Jumbo that has a thinner waist compared to a dred. So the jumbo is a bigger guitar (bigger lower bout) that will make a difference when sitting in a recliner, but the dred's smaller body also has the wider waist that will make it sit higher on your lap than a jumbo. Standing up, however, the shape makes much less of a difference.

Your experimentation with tuning is on the money. Compare standard tuning with half down, and then full-step down, and see what you hear. The right tuning is what you like!

PB stand for phosphor bronze as opposed to 80/20 which is a different percentage of bronze: the PBs are warmer with slightly more bass content and attenuated trebles. The right string is, of course, dependent on the guitar and the owner's preferences! But given a 12s propensity for jangle, the PBs make a significant difference IMO

Edward

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by edward993

Actually, it's the Jumbo that has a thinner waist compared to a dred. So the jumbo is a bigger guitar (bigger lower bout) that will make a difference when sitting in a recliner, but the dred's smaller body also has the wider waist that will make it sit higher on your lap than a jumbo. Standing up, however, the shape makes much less of a difference.0

Your experimentation with tuning is on the money. Compare standard tuning with half down, and then full-step down, and see what you hear. The right tuning is what you like!

PB stand for phosphor bronze as opposed to 80/20 which is a different percentage of bronze: the PBs are warmer with slightly more bass content and attenuated trebles. The right string is, of course, dependent on the guitar and the owner's preferences! But given a 12s propensity for jangle, the PBs make a significant difference IMO

Edward

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Good information! I would never have known you could change the jangle by string selection. so, if I buy the 150e...I could do that to cut back on the jangle. Thus far, I thought that guitar selection was the only way. As I've said, I'm a novice at this.

[DetroitDave]

"Good information! I would never have known you could change the jangle by string selection. so, if I buy the 150e...I could do that to cut back on the jangle."

You can also change the sound by simply changing picks. Generally, the heavier the pick, the less sparkle and shimmer.

[edward993]

Yup on stings and pick! Wholly concur with Dave: general rule is thicker is darker, taming the brightness of any guitar, and shape matters as well. Try a bunch and see what ya like!

Fwiw, I have long loved elixir nanoweb strings for their tone and longevity, that they retain their tone over their entire useful lifespan as opposed to gradually sounding darker and dull as uncoated strings do. But Elixir did not make a PB set in 12 way back in the day. I bit the bullet and spent dough on PBs from their 6-string set for the wound strings, which made a 12er string change rather expensive. But I did it because I preferred the tone. Of late, however, elixir must have heard/felt the criticism as they now have a 12-set in PB. My problem solved.

Edward