LR Baggs Lyric Vs. K&K

[Shades of Blue]

My 000-28 came with a Lyric installed. It's not bad, and I like the sound ok, but I don't gig and probably will never gig. I'm thinking about taking it out and putting in a K&K simply for simplification. I don't like having the battery bag in the Martin, and I'm not a fan of being able to see the control in the soundhole.

First of all, I've never played a KK, but people seem to love them. Seems simple and seems to sound good. What can I expect tonally from a KK that the Lyric doesn't offer. Secondly, would you make the switch for someone who only uses a pickup to noodle around through computer monitors sometimes?

The third option, and one I personally like, is to just fill the hole with an end pin haha.

[MrErikJ]

The lyric is more mic-like and will detect sound from all sides of the guitar but, from what I've heard, lacks bass. The bass-cut is necessary to stabilize the pickup and prevent feedback. The K&K is a piezoelectric soundboard transducer (SBT) and will read the string vibrations as they're delivered to the top of the guitar. It won't detect the "air" within the guitar or sounds reflecting off the back and sides but it will detect the "essence" of the guitar's tone, as the majority of that will indeed come from the top. It will probably deliver more bass with feedback resistance but will retain a certain "piezo" sound quality, without the harshness some undersaddle pickups are prone to.

Any type of internal pickup (SBT or Mic) is prone to some "boxiness" which is usually due to an exaggerated midrange and excess bass. A little bit of patience and EQ will go a long way to clean that up for you. I don't use the K&K but it's undeniably a great pickup in its sound quality, dependability, and simplicity/price.

[Methos1979]

My 000-18GE Custom came with a Lyric in it. I'd never tried one before so I was looking forward to checking it out. It was nothing short of awful. I struggled to get any decent tone out of it at all. I mean nothing. So I yanked it and put in a K&K. Now, in all fairness I should say that K&K is my go-to pickup system for nearly every guitar I've owned. If I have a choice I go with the K&K.

As such, I know what to expect and exactly how to get the best tone out of the K&K and this guitar was no different. The K&K gives my 000-18 a wonderfully warm tone. Any feedback issues (only encountered live situations where volume is high) is easily countered by an inexpensive sound hole cover.

No batteries, the ultimate in simplicity, the least amount of added weight and darn near bulletproof. Sure, there are 'better' systems for tone purists but if you're like me and just want great tone with the absolute minimal cost and effort, the K&K is awesome.

[AeroUSA]

Would you please share your DI, EQ, Tone tips with us. I have always struggled to get a good sound from a K&K.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Would you please share your DI, EQ, Tone tips with us. I have always struggled to get a good sound from a K&K.

I'm assuming you're talking to me? At home I generally go one of three routes: Straight into the amp, RedEye, or K&K pre-amp. As of late it's just been straight into the amp, a Carvin AG200. I dial back the mids, way back around 8-9 o'clock, lows are dialed back a little around 11 and highs generally boosted around 1 or 2. That holds for most of the guitars and most of the amps I've used. It should be noted that I play fingerstyle with the meat of my fingertips, so no nails or pics. So my tone tends to be muted - hence the bump of the highs.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

The lyric is more mic-like and will detect sound from all sides of the guitar but, from what I've heard, lacks bass.

Whoa Cowboy.
The Lyric does not lack bass.

What it does lack is the unnatural bass boost that nearly every other acoustic PU has, and what nearly everyone has gotten used to and has come to expect.

My 1977 Guild D-55 now has a Lyric installed.
I love the frequency balance my Guild has when played with no amplification.
Lyric delivers that, nearly exactly that, only louder.

One complaint much of the public has against the highest quality microphones and speakers is a reported lack of bass, when the gear actually is just uncommonly accurate.

[Hotspur]

Some people feel like the lyric sounds a little processed. I can sort of imagine that I hear what they're talking about, but it's not immediately obvious to me.

The K&K, to me, sounds thuddy and dull. I know a lot of people on this forum really like it, but it sounds totally dead to me. Different strokes for different folks and all, I guess.

If I was looking to upgrade a lyric I'd probably look at the anthem, which seems to solve the processed-sounding aspects of the lyric and can provide the extra bass that people often like on amplified acoustics. Although, quite frankly, I've just got an UST and if I want an upgrade I'll just add a Tonedexter.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

A properly installed K&K through a well matched preamp (the best I've tried so far is the BBE Acoustimax) sounds pretty darn good.

The Lyric, directly into a good amp, in a home "sound room" type environment can be adjusted to sound fantastic.

On a stage, between the two, I'd definitely take the K&K + Acoustimax.

[Wild Bill Jones]

I’ve used a Lyric and a K&K in the same guitar. Lyric was Ok. K&K a little “ antiseptic” sounding but I much preferred it. Truth be told I like my Amulet much more than the other two. It is more difficult to install though. The Lyric is the easiest.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Tico

Whoa Cowboy.
The Lyric does not lack bass.

What it does lack is the unnatural bass boost that nearly every other acoustic PU has, and what nearly everyone has gotten used to and has come to expect.

My 1977 Guild D-55 now has a Lyric installed.
I love the frequency balance my Guild has when played with no amplification.
Lyric delivers that, nearly exactly that, only louder.

One complaint much of the public has against the highest quality microphones and speakers is a reported lack of bass, when the gear actually is just uncommonly accurate.

Well, I don’t disagree that many pickups exaggerate bass but it’s a common complaint that the Lyric lacks the bottom of some of the guitars it’s installed in. To the most important point, I think it depends on the guitar. Some players find the Lyric satisfactory while others find it lacking. It’s a great pickup but it’s not for everyone. I’ve heard it sound very nice in some guitars and hollow in others. To that point, I’ve liked the K&K in some guitars and not others. There are very few pickups I thinks are “bad” it’s just that some are a bad fit for certain guitars.

[cotten]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

My 000-28 came with a Lyric installed. It's not bad, and I like the sound ok, but I don't gig and probably will never gig. I'm thinking about taking it out and putting in a K&K simply for simplification. I don't like having the battery bag in the Martin, and I'm not a fan of being able to see the control in the soundhole... Secondly, would you make the switch for someone who only uses a pickup to noodle around through computer monitors sometimes?...

In responding to questions, I try to listen carefully. Often, as in your case, people seem to have answered their own question, in which case my opinion doesn't really matter. Would I make the switch just to noodle around through computer monitors sometimes? No, not a chance. The Lyric you already have is fine for that, and more. But if you really don't want a battery in your guitar, then maybe buy an inexpensive sound hole magnetic pickup, perhaps a Dean Markley Pro Mag SC-1 for less than $30 new. I don't think it will match the tone of your Lyric, but may well be sufficient for your needs. That said, I have a K&K pure in my McKnight, and love it.

cotten

[rokdog49]

Consider the JJB Prestige 330. Same as the K&K at half the price.
I have one in my D18 and you can add a volume wheel and still be less than the K&K without one.

http://www.jjb-electronics.com/prestige-330.html

[varmonter]

I have a KK in two of my guitars. I think they
Are pretty good but for what you describe you may not like it.
Because I find a preamp and eq is absolutely necessary
to eek out all the nice tone the KK has. You
Will be essentially ripping this active portion out
of the inside of your guitar(lyric) and moving it
Outside (KK plus preamp plus eq) the KK without the pre
will probably not sound so good.
Perhaps just running it through computer speakers
You may not notice