Pin bridge vs Pinless

[charles Tauber]

Thanks for being willing to disclose your idea.

In another recent discussion, John had mentioned simply inserting the strings through rivet washers from the interior of the guitar, with the same result.

By this loading the top from below and breaking over the bridge on the same plane , this design loads the rear of the bridge downward which helps counter the torsional load where the strings break over the saddle .

I suggest your analysis is flawed. The moment caused by the strings on the saddle attempts to tip the bridge towards its front edge, lifting the back edge. What causes a downward force on the rear of the bridge?

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

In another recent discussion, John had mentioned simply inserting the strings through rivet washers from the interior of the guitar...

I believe Murray has such a product. ...

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

...The pinless design as I use it has 1 disadvantage and that is convenience . ....

that's odd. I think convenience is one of the greatest advantages of a pinless bridge. No pins to fuss with.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Truckjohn

Back to the OP...

The main disadvantage of pinless bridges is that they don't have the string ball ends anchored to the bridge plate underneath acting as a safety net against the bridge tearing off and flying like it's been shot out of a slingshot... About 100% of conventional pinless bridge designs use bolts to provide that safety net.... And it's there for good reason!

You also tend to see pinless bridges built more meatier... They have to have enough thickness to make room for the strings to run inside the bridge. They often also get extra depth to provide a bit more glue line..

Pin bridges have an advantage that their designs are mature.. We are right at 90 years of production instruments being sold with belly style pin bridges standard....

I've never seen a bolted-on pinless bridge

[fazool]

The only thing I've heard that might make sense is that a pinned bridge can achieve greater break angle behind the saddle and, thus, better downward force which can affect the guitars output.

I don't know if that's true enough to matter.

[Tony Done]

They're a deal breaker for me on steel string guitars. I don't like the idea of all that string tension hanging off a glue joint, even with bolts I wouldn't like it.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by fazool

The only thing I've heard that might make sense is that a pinned bridge can achieve greater break angle behind the saddle and, thus, better downward force which can affect the guitars output.

I don't know if that's true enough to matter.

One could potentially put the outlet on the pinless bridge closer to the saddle effecting greater break angle, though some may argue that the string height off the top has more effect on volume, regardless of break angle at the saddle... of course all depending how you make the top as well.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by fazool

I've never seen a bolted-on pinless bridge

I think some of the less expensive Breedlove guitars.. holes on bridge countersunk and plugged, along with a JLD bridge doctor....

[JonWint]

I have another take on the Lexan-mate pinned bridge sans pins concept.

This is currently installed on a 1914 1-21 waiting for bridge plate repairs and a bridge replacement with a period correct bridge. It allows me to play it without causing more bridge plate damage.

It consists of running a 1/16" diameter metal rod thru the string end barrels. It is probably the least convenient string attachment system. It is a temporary solution.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by JonWint

I have another take on the Lexan-mate pinned bridge sans pins concept.

This is currently installed on a 1914 1-21 waiting for bridge plate repairs and a bridge replacement with a period correct bridge. It allows me to play it without causing more bridge plate damage.

It consists of running a 1/16" diameter metal rod thru the string end barrels. It is probably the least convenient string attachment system. It is a temporary solution.

I assume you ran the rod though all 6 ball ends before stringing hrough? Or your hand dexterity rivals the best... LOL

[JonWint]

Correct you are.

I should have added emphasis to "least convenient string attachment system".

[John Arnold]

Did that on a Tele copy I built in high school, but it was a top loader. I used two finishing nails.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Thanks for being willing to disclose your idea.

In another recent discussion, John had mentioned simply inserting the strings through rivet washers from the interior of the guitar, with the same result.



I suggest your analysis is flawed. The moment caused by the strings on the saddle attempts to tip the bridge towards its front edge, lifting the back edge. What causes a downward force on the rear of the bridge?

The string breaks forward as it emerges from the bridge . This creates a downward force at that place . This also happens with a pin bridge . What does not happen is the upward force on the bridge itself that is trying to pull the bridge from the top via the pins with a pin bridge .
This is using a single unit for all of the strings to pass through , you know , just like the bridge itself . This allows the force to be spread over a larger area , you know , just like the bridge does . Are you getting it ?

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by fazool

The only thing I've heard that might make sense is that a pinned bridge can achieve greater break angle behind the saddle and, thus, better downward force which can affect the guitars output.

I don't know if that's true enough to matter.

How can a pin bridge create greater break angle ?
Break angle has nothing to do with pins . It is all about the string/s .
With what I am doing , you can actually increase break angle by using a thicker piece of Lexan .
Should you want greater angle without increased mass , a thicker piece with a smaller footprint will do that .

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Did that on a Tele copy I built in high school, but it was a top loader. I used two finishing nails.

Reminds me when I was a kid and broke strings on my acoustic, I'd use whatever was convenient to tie the string off in place of the ball end.. Aaah those were the days. Now I just get a new string.