Suggestions for First Electric?

[Warrenaines]

Thanks, all. Do forum sponsors (or others) have any general pricing policies like they do with some acoustics, e.g., X% off MAP?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve DeRosa]

Most (if not all) of the AGF sponsors offer special deals for members - do some price shopping online first and then call around...

[frankhond]

Originally Posted by Warrenaines

What differences should be expected for a Fender American Standard vs. a made in Mexico or other cheaper version?

I'm somewhat familiar with Martin US acoustics vs. MIM but seems apples and oranges as they don't make many (if any) even standard series models at a certain level/price point in Mexico. Gibson/Epiphone acoustics might be a little more similar, as the Epiphone line makes guitars copied from the iconic Gibson acoustic models. But even that is a much bigger price difference compared to the price difference in Fenders Teles/Strats so not really applicable.

I'll be selling an acoustic for a lot more than the retail price of a new Fender American Standard. Not going to spend it all on electric guitar and related gear and all for saving a few hundred $, but also don't want to go too cheap if there's a difference that will be noticeable at some point even if not right away.

Also, any thoughts on small practice/home use amp? I just bought a Yamaha THR10C that I like a lot even for acoustics and has lots of positive reviews for electrics that it's more geared for so not desperate to get rid of it. But it's within return period so soon would be the best time. I realize there's tons of better more expensive amps on the market, but seems like a lot of even relatively small tube amps might not be the best option for home use (low volume). I already have good headphone gear if that would make a difference.

My THR10C is just great, keep it even if you end up getting another amp later! Nothing bests it for playing quietly at home. The models are set up so it has a more "hifi" rather than "studio" character, so it works really great to plug in your ipod or whatever and play along to music. The headphone sound is great and it also has a bass model which sounds really good over headphones (obviously the speakers are too small to deliver deep bass).

I was in a similar situation and ended up with a used fender american standard stratocaster. They hold value well and I could sell it for the same price. This is something to consider. A used american standard anything will hold value, a new squier will drop 50 or more percent immediately.

Before buying I went to a store and played every strat they had - mex, chinese, korean, am standard, custom shop... the quality and feel peaks with the am standard. Anything above that is bling or some super specific setup. The mexicans were a close second, but there are little touches on the americans, like rolled edges on the fingerboard and more solid feeling hardware, which make the american feel like a better guitar. Also the pickups on the american were better, which was obvious on an clean tube amp but not noticeable with distortion, suggesting that the music you will play plays a role in your choice. The squier was good but felt more crude somehow. You will probably want to upgrade from the squier once you get into it.

[LSemmens]

Out of curiosity. Why is it that The SG and others suffer from neck dive when on a strap? Surely the neck would not be an issue unless, of course, the strap button is mounted on the neck.

[jwayne]

A couple of other things to consider: do you play sitting or standing, and do you play with a pick or fingerstyle (or both)?

I play sitting and find a Strat MUCH more ergonomic and comfy than a Tele (they are also usually lighter) although I have a couple of Tele-STYLE guitars with belly and arm contours that are great. All are balanced better than an SG (which I also found lousy for fingerstyle). Offsets are very comfy also (like the Jazzmaster you mentioned.)

If you want to go the Fender route you'll get a lot more bang for the buck with an MIM (tons of used ones at good prices) or a Squier. You spend a lot more for the American versions with not that much more to show for it (more attention to detail like the finish, for example.)

There is really a lot of other excellent stuff out there for not that much moolah - Yamaha is excellent even at the $100 Pacifica level!

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by LSemmens

Out of curiosity. Why is it that The SG and others suffer from neck dive when on a strap? Surely the neck would not be an issue unless, of course, the strap button is mounted on the neck.

I'm not sure I understand your statement. The SG's strap button is on the neck (the heel of the neck, but...) A upper "horn" strap button placement would perhaps help, but the overall issue causing neck dive is the relationship between a heavier neck and headstock and a lighter body. You would even have this issue of you tied your strap up above the nut hootenanny-style.

A Les Paul, for one example, would almost never have this issue, the bodies are heavy enough outweigh the neck, though of course heavy can be uncomfortable in a different way. Bass guitars can suffer for neck dive too, what with their larger necks.

A wide suede strap or one of the 'sticky" neoprene ones more or less eliminates this issue with an SG or other instruments.

[jwayne]

Originally Posted by frankhond

(snip)

I was in a similar situation and ended up with a used fender american standard stratocaster. They hold value well and I could sell it for the same price. This is something to consider. A used american standard anything will hold value, a new squier will drop 50 or more percent immediately.

(snip)

How can you compare the depreciation on a used strat vs a new squier? That only makes sense if you go into it saying "I want to spend X amount of dollars on an instrument" and make the decision between used & new.

Go to reverb or ebay and you'll see how much a new American Standard Strat depreciates. We're talking almost 40%. Based on that, new Squiers and MIMs hold their value better.

[g4vrr57]

The amp, how you set it up, skill and touch are at the very least 50% of the audible result with an electric. Jimmy Page is supposed to have recorded Zep 1 on a Tele only moving to Joe Walsh's Lester on Zep 2. Who knew? Not me at the time obviously but it seems like everyone else did! Touch and feel then.

That said, and if this is to end up as the first of many- (nothing new in that!) then just enjoy the journey, start with a Tele, hand over your wallet / purse and go from there.

Writing as a Fender devotee for more decades than I like to admit, I nonetheless have to recommend a 335 type. In my case a Yamaha SA2000. Despite my penchant for all things Leo, its all-rounder capabilities makes it my grab-in-a-housefire guitar. It's a classic design that handles all genres and will manage a little unplugged work at more than just a pinch too. Sure Danny Gatton cruised through jazz and all styles west with a Tele, but the rest of us are mortals. I'm going upstairs to get my SA2000 right now which I most likely would not have done if not for this thread!


e&oe...

[Warrenaines]

Thanks everyone. To respond to a few points, I primarily play standing up just because I've relatively recently discovered that's more comfortable for me with dreads, mostly because of the depth of the bout. I'd imagine I'd stand with an electric, but have mostly played sitting before recently so possible I might be more comfortable sitting with a given electric due to weight or not having a deep body.

I primarily play with a fairly stiff pick these days. Have also previously played with <1.0mm picks. I play some true fingerstyle. I also play some stuff that's generally played with a pick with bare fingers ('technique' I primarily developed to keep volume down rather than emulating a certain player or style, guess it's possible I'd be one of the few that would do something similar on electric).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Warrenaines

Thanks everyone. To respond to a few points, I primarily play standing up just because I've relatively recently discovered that's more comfortable for me with dreads, mostly because of the depth of the bout. I'd imagine I'd stand with an electric, but have mostly played sitting before recently so possible I might be more comfortable sitting with a given electric due to weight or not having a deep body.

I primarily play with a fairly stiff pick these days. Have also previously played with <1.0mm picks. I play some true fingerstyle. I also play some stuff that's generally played with a pick with bare fingers ('technique' I primarily developed to keep volume down rather than emulating a certain player or style, guess it's possible I'd be one of the few that would do something similar on electric)...

There's a Guild M-75 at Sweetwater with your name on it:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M75SB

Just slightly larger than an LP, weighs no more than many acoustics (5 lbs. 3 oz.), P-90 style soapbars will give you clarity for fingerstyle, it's already set up with 11's (I'd go with a wound G though); FYI they don't get them often - and they're kinda hard to find in general - so you might want to grab it before someone else does...

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by jwayne

How can you compare the depreciation on a used strat vs a new squier? That only makes sense if you go into it saying "I want to spend X amount of dollars on an instrument" and make the decision between used & new.

Go to reverb or ebay and you'll see how much a new American Standard Strat depreciates. We're talking almost 40%. Based on that, new Squiers and MIMs hold their value better.

Just reinforcing this point. The notion that an American Standard will hold its value is just not borne out by reality. It is a buyer's market, has been for some time. And yeah, 40-50% below new is about right.

Also, the notion that those Strats are the pinnacle and that anything more expensive is just so much "bling" is absolutely not the case. They are fine guitars, but can't hold a candle in hardly any respect to a comparable (and more expensive) Suhr, Anderson, or similar alternative.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by Warrenaines

Thanks everyone. To respond to a few points, I primarily play standing up just because I've relatively recently discovered that's more comfortable for me with dreads, mostly because of the depth of the bout. I'd imagine I'd stand with an electric, but have mostly played sitting before recently so possible I might be more comfortable sitting with a given electric due to weight or not having a deep body.

I primarily play with a fairly stiff pick these days. Have also previously played with <1.0mm picks. I play some true fingerstyle. I also play some stuff that's generally played with a pick with bare fingers ('technique' I primarily developed to keep volume down rather than emulating a certain player or style, guess it's possible I'd be one of the few that would do something similar on electric).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a flat pick addict myself, but plenty of bare meat on the string electric players out there. Jeff Beck comes to mind. And if anything, hybrid picking where the player uses a flat pick and then the remaining fingers to pick as well seems more common on electric than acoustic.

And as to using the meat to keep the volume down, does everyone here know the story of why Wes Montgomery developed his thumb picking that helped define his sound? They way I heard it: needing to woodshed at night with his family in a small apartment...

[Warrenaines]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

Just reinforcing this point. The notion that an American Standard will hold its value is just not borne out by reality. It is a buyer's market, has been for some time. And yeah, 40-50% below new is about right.

I'm seeing new American Standard Strats for $1k. I'll very likely go used with Strat or otherwise, but not seeing any for $500 in vg much less like new condition. Seems more like they're not too hard to find vg+ for $750, but certainly not flooded at the price so unlikely a seller would go down another $250 or even $150 unless really desperate to sell.

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Warrenaines

I'm seeing new American Standard Strats for $1k. I'll very likely go used with Strat or otherwise, but not seeing any for $500 in vg much less like new condition. Seems more like they're not too hard to find vg+ for $750, but certainly not flooded at the price so unlikely a seller would go down another $250 or even $150 unless really desperate to sell.

I hear you, that's great. I think the real question is if you spend $1000 today and sell it in ten years, or even five, what will you get for it? Not asking price, but actual sale price? Even if my 40-50% number is off, it's not much of a monetary investment. All I'm saying is that I would hate to see someone buy a Strat thinking it will "hold its value", because that sure doesn't seem to be the case, and I think it will be even less the case as time goes on

I certainly think buying used is smart.

[Warrenaines]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

I hear you, that's great. I think the real question is if you spend $1000 today and sell it in ten years, or even five, what will you get for it? Not asking price, but actual sale price? Even if my 40-50% number is off, it's not much of a monetary investment. All I'm saying is that I would hate to see someone buy a Strat thinking it will "hold its value", because that sure doesn't seem to be the case, and I think it will be even less the case as time goes on

I certainly think buying used is smart.

Yeah, I've never bought a brand new guitar so not advocating that or strongly inclined to start now. That said, not out of the question for something like a Fender American Standard that's being closed out at reasonable prices new. Reasons would include (I) specific specs (pickup configuration, thin line etc) or even color I couldn't find used locally, and (II) much easier return process if needed. Assuming no dud/QC issues, I currently like lots of different electrics I've tested so far and think I'll like whatever I get even more as I own it for a few weeks, but possible I could realize something doesnt work for me only be owning/playing at home for a bit.

Im certainly not expecting to profit off of any guitar in this range. Holding value/smart purchase is definitely a consideration, dont want to to lose 50% right off the lot that I could've avoided buying essentially the same thing that's available used. But if I find something specific I think I'll love and can't find it locally in great condition used, I'd be fine if I sold it in 5 years and 'rented' it for maybe $50/year.

On another note, any thoughts on the PRS S2 (or earlier) intermediate line, including specific models? I played a PRS SE Santana and was pleasantly surprised. Pretty sure I'll buy a US built guitar so the S2 line is intriguing. Should be able to find some to play locally but at first glance will take more effort in my area finding specific models than either the higher end or low end PRS lines. Also, it seems that most people think PRS quality control/consistency is better than Fender or Gibson but open to thoughts as,depending on the model etc., possible I find something new that I like but save a lot buying online used or otherwise.