Scales...When is enough enough?

[TexasCowGrower]

I'm on a mission to learn Theory as applied to the guitar. Obviously its best to learn scales frontwards and backwards all up and down the neck but given each has some 12 variations, where do you draw the line when committing to memory before moving to the next scale? I know the notes in a given scale and where to find them on the fretboard but at some point it becomes a hunt and peck adventure rather than rote. I'm old and not sure I'll live long enough to memorize 12 variations of each scale! At what point do I move on to learning about chord construction and modes?

[Kerbie]

I think you can move on at any time, but it's not either/or. You can practice scales every day if you like. I enjoy playing major, minor, pentatonics... I usually choose a few of my favorite keys and I like noodling around. Some people hate that and just want to play songs.

If you've just begun to learn theory, I'd put modes on the backburner unless you really want to get into jazz. Chord construction is great... very useful to know. Substitutions, progressions... you can spend the rest of your life there! Lots of fun. But if it's a drudgery, I'd move along. Vary it.

Scales are great... they help you learn notes, the fretboard, chords, soloing, but there's a lot of stuff out there to dive into. Good luck.

[HHP]

Do you anticipate needing to play in all keys and all modes? I might memorize the driving directions to Ottumwa, Iowa but it won't matter unless I actually go there.

[mr. beaumont]

I would say, if this is a goal, to set aside some practice time each day for it...it should only be a percentage of your time, not all of it.

I'd start with the major scale. There's an awful lot in there...Start in C, say, and go through the cycle of fifths--it's logical musical sense and will force you to "skip around" a bit, rather than just move positions up one fret at a time.

Learning the harmony of this scale, and the subsequent chords/arpeggios that can be derived from it, will be very beneficial if your goal is to improvise. Think of an arpeggio as the "meat and potatoes" of a scale.

[zhunter]

Hopefully you are learning how to apply them as part of your theory. How chords are derived within them etc. Scales are like the alphabet. Be sure to learn some words along the way. And yes, the major scale is the core material. Get it and learn how to apply and build with it. The remaining scales will fall in line.

hunter

[TexasCowGrower]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Hopefully you are learning how to apply them as part of your theory. How chords are derived within them etc. Scales are like the alphabet. Be sure to learn some words along the way. And yes, the major scale is the core material. Get it and learn how to apply and build with it. The remaining scales will fall in line.

hunter

Bear in mind I'm fairly new at this so WHICH major scale are you referring to as THE major scale? This is partly the reason for my original post as I know the C major, E major, F major pretty much up and down the fretboard and I can pick out the rest but I'm not really "fluent" yet. I look at this process as a building block in a larger endeavor so I THINK I need to get this down before learning HOW to apply them. I'm still in the dark about that! I am doing this by myself so maybe I'm missing the part about the need for integration at this point. My ultimate goal is effective improvisation and as with Kerbie I enjoy noodling rather than learning someone else's songs. HHP brings up a good point in his roadmap analogy. I have never looked at it like that before.

[Kerbie]

I think noodling is a great activity... it's always interesting to see what I can come up with. You might check out Rolly Brown's you tube lesson on the subject. It's a teaser for his longer video which is very good... he's a good teacher.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by TexasCowGrower

Bear in mind I'm fairly new at this so WHICH major scale are you referring to as THE major scale? This is partly the reason for my original post as I know the C major, E major, F major pretty much up and down the fretboard and I can pick out the rest but I'm not really "fluent" yet. I look at this process as a building block in a larger endeavor so I THINK I need to get this down before learning HOW to apply them. I'm still in the dark about that! I am doing this by myself so maybe I'm missing the part about the need for integration at this point. My ultimate goal is effective improvisation and as with Kerbie I enjoy noodling rather than learning someone else's songs. HHP brings up a good point in his roadmap analogy. I have never looked at it like that before.

The major scale-- to find the notes, start anywhere--

That first note is your starting point. Now, move up a whole step. That's note 2. Another whole step to note 3.

The full pattern is Whole Whole Half step, Whole whole whole half step.

You'll recognize it as Do-Re-Mi (etc.)

The C major is the easiest place to start--no sharps or flats-- CDEFGAB (and back to C)

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by TexasCowGrower

I'm on a mission to learn Theory as applied to the guitar. Obviously its best to learn scales frontwards and backwards all up and down the neck but given each has some 12 variations, where do you draw the line when committing to memory before moving to the next scale? I know the notes in a given scale and where to find them on the fretboard but at some point it becomes a hunt and peck adventure rather than rote. I'm old and not sure I'll live long enough to memorize 12 variations of each scale! At what point do I move on to learning about chord construction and modes?

My idea for you is this:

Put on a bunch of your favorite music, pick up your guitar, and start practicing the different scale patterns to music you know and love.

You're likely to find that you play in just a handful of keys, so focus your pattern-memory on those. For me, the popular keys I play are G, D, C and F#. So, as one example, I will practice scales for the G in frets 3-6, and then at frets 7-10.

You really can play one scale through multiple chord changes - with practice you'll find when and which notes to skip over. Then, in your future life, you might find yourself smoothly transitioning from the G scale to the C scale, at either fret box location, and a little slide up to the D.

good luck!

[Dylan]

Learn as many scales as possible and practice until they are second nature. Once they are second nature, you will use them intuitively. It's like buying a new tool. If you don't have one, you can get by without it, but having it opens up worlds of new opportunities.

[rick-slo]

Scales practice does help increase dexterity and accuracy. Whether you need to memorize numerous scale patterns is another story. If you have a pretty good idea what you want to play then gear your practice towards what is required for that. If you are not sure about it then do a lot of listening to music that is out there and try to figure it out.

[Mr. Jelly]

Unless you are going for some esoteric type of jazz or rock I don't see the point. The way I figure it. And most will not agree I'm sure. Learn the major and minor pentatonic. While in the process you will stumble on the major scale and learn that also. If you are conscious your ear will learn the sounds available on the fret board. From there use your creativity to move in, out, on, around and through the box. Hit the one on the important chord changes and you're there.

[mr. beaumont]

The amount of posts encouraging someone to NOT pursue knowledge is very disappointing.

EDIT: As are my attempts to spell "disappointing"

[HHP]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

The amount of posts encouraging someone to NOT pursue knowledge is very disappointing.

EDIT: As are my attempts to spell "disappointing"

I don't think anyone is saying don't pursue knowledge. More like saying find the things that help you play what you want to play now. As what you want to play changes, update as needed. I see people get so lost in the theory weeds that they lose the point of actually playing something.

[Kerbie]

I also don't see posters encouraging him NOT to pursue knowledge. I think almost every post, in different ways, encourages the OP to learn scales and how to use them.