Harmony H1270 12 string guitar.

[Silly Moustache]

Well, it arrived today.

It was very well packed in a relatively cheap case which fits it well.

It was in a filthy shape and I spent an hour trying to get the eleven knotted strings off anf cleaning up the outside and neck

There is a poorly repaired patched hole in the back and the inside is covered in glue spills - if a reset has been done looks like a kitchen table job.

The neck looks more like a mountain pathway than a superhighway, and the actionat12th is 3 m/m and not 2 m/m as advised.

I put sme Martin strings on and tuned them to D - and it actually plays OK open and with a capo on II and IV.

I plan to take it to a luthier friend tomorrow for a second opinion, but I have 14 days to return it if I decide against it.

Right now I'm about 50/50.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by HHP

Understand the appeal of some of the old Harmonys, but I have to think even an entry level modern 12 string will play and sound better.

As with anything else, it all depend on what one considers 'better.' I recorded a number of songs with the same model, which I, personally, would not have with a modern 12 string. There is just something very unique about a ladder braced, big bodied guitar that the modern makers haven't come close to replicating.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

As with anything else, it all depend on what one considers 'better.' I recorded a number of songs with the same model, which I, personally, would not have with a modern 12 string. There is just something very unique about a ladder braced, big bodied guitar that the modern makers haven't come close to replicating.

Not only ladder braced but a long scale. By the way Toby, I love your version of Shake Shake Mama recorded with the Sovereign 6 string. I prefer the sound of the Harmony over the version you recorded with the Martin.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

As with anything else, it all depend on what one considers 'better.' I recorded a number of songs with the same model, which I, personally, would not have with a modern 12 string. There is just something very unique about a ladder braced, big bodied guitar that the modern makers haven't come close to replicating.

I get it. I have the same model Harmony mandolin favored by Yank Rachel. It has a very different sound than the preferred dominant mandolin voicings. OK if you want that retro effect but not something that would be broadly appropriate in a wide variety of musical settings. And, unlike the Harmony guitars, the mandolins hold up pretty well and generally don't need extensive and expensive work to get them playable.

A lot of the guys that gained some fame with old Harmonys and the like all seemed to buy some pretty good instruments when they finally got some money for their talent. I imagine if you could go back in time and offer the Harmony players and even swap for something like a Taylor 555, they'd universally jump at the chance.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by HHP

I get it. I have the same model Harmony mandolin favored by Yank Rachel. It has a very different sound than the preferred dominant mandolin voicings. OK if you want that retro effect but not something that would be broadly appropriate in a wide variety of musical settings. And, unlike the Harmony guitars, the mandolins hold up pretty well and generally don't need extensive and expensive work to get them playable.

A lot of the guys that gained some fame with old Harmonys and the like all seemed to buy some pretty good instruments when they finally got some money for their talent. I imagine if you could go back in time and offer the Harmony players and even swap for something like a Taylor 555, they'd universally jump at the chance.

Sure. John Cephas went over to a Taylor... once he was endorsing them. There's a great story of Skip James choosing a Martin over a Yamaha, only because he figured it was easier to have it fixed in PA then it was to send the Yamaha back to Japan. At least that's what he thought. John Hurt favored that Guild F-30, of which he had five over the latter part of his career, and both the Piedmont players Pink Anderson and John Jackson loved their Gibson dreads.

On the other side of the coin, Mance Lipscomb kept on using Harmony's even after he could afford better guitars, simply because he preferred the sound. Willie McTell also favored Harmony guitars long after his records were selling well. Furry Lewis played an Epiphone when he certainly could have had any Gibson at the time. Speaking of Yank, John Estes was also known to have favored lesser name guitars. My friend Jack Owens of Bentonia was using his cheap Kay guitar right up until the day he died when I know he could've had other, more popular brand name guitars. So I'll respectfully disagree that all of those old timers would have universally jumped at the chance to buy more upscale guitars if they had the money.

I think the bottom line was that money wasn't the only reason for the choices people made in selecting guitars.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

Sure. John Cephas went over to a Taylor... once he was endorsing them. There's a great story of Skip James choosing a Martin over a Yamaha, only because he figured it was easier to have it fixed in PA then it was to send the Yamaha back to Japan. At least that's what he thought. John Hurt favored that Guild F-30, of which he had five over the latter part of his career, and both the Piedmont players Pink Anderson and John Jackson loved their Gibson dreads.

On the other side of the coin, Mance Lipscomb kept on using Harmony's even after he could afford better guitars, simply because he preferred the sound. Willie McTell also favored Harmony guitars long after his records were selling well. Furry Lewis played an Epiphone when he certainly could have had any Gibson at the time. Speaking of Yank, John Estes was also known to have favored lesser name guitars. My friend Jack Owens of Bentonia was using his cheap Kay guitar right up until the day he died when I know he could've had other, more popular brand name guitars. So I'll respectfully disagree that all of those old timers would have universally jumped at the chance to buy more upscale guitars if they had the money.

I think the bottom line was that money wasn't the only reason for the choices people made in selecting guitars.

In his spoken word autobiography, Mance Lipscomb got a J-200 as soon as he received his first royalty payment from his re-issue record. The photos show his J-200 and his new false teeth to be proud possessions.

Furry Lewis often played a club down the street from me when I lived in Memphis. Part of his fee went to getting his Martin (D-28 or D-35) out of pawn before the show.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by HHP

In his spoken word autobiography, Mance Lipscomb got a J-200 as soon as he received his first royalty payment from his re-issue record. The photos show his J-200 and his new false teeth to be proud possessions.

Furry Lewis often played a club down the street from me when I lived in Memphis. Part of his fee went to getting his Martin (D-28 or D-35) out of pawn before the show.

There are always exceptions. All I'm saying is that they all didn't move over to Martins and Gibsons once they had the money.

[joe paul]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Well, it arrived today.
....
Right now I'm about 50/50.

Good luck with getting it fixed up to decent playing condition !
I've had one of it's six-string cousins for years now and I'm firmly in the camp that says it's worth it, give the guitar a chance.

[Silly Moustache]

Well, I took it to two local techs today. First one checked it over and did a slight adjustment on the (working) truss rod.
He also declared "Oh I have one of those somewhere - shuffled about in the messy (est) corner and came up with an H1270 in original case !! No bridge or tailpice sadly.

Then took it to another tech - who checked it out - confirmed that the neck had been reset at some point, and suggested some more work to be done on it -which I'm very interested in having done.

Brought it home tuned it up again, and, but these things do have an individual sound...I love my D-12-20, but for roistering blues stuff, I think the Harmony has it - a certain punch - y'know?

I think I'm bonding with it.

[Truckjohn]

Its certaiy worth fixing.

Those old Harmony 12 strings have a peculiar sound described as "A jangly old beer soaked bar room piano".. And when you hear them played - that's exactly the sound they have. And it's dead on the right sound for the old country blues. They sound just like the video you posted.

[Toby Walker]

Hey Silly, where did you see that advertised? Was it over by you in England?

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

Hey Silly, where did you see that advertised? Was it over by you in England?

Yes, on Ebay - seller was in North London (not that far from me) - but I'm still too ill to travel so I took a gamble and paid for shipping.

[kkrell]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Well, I took it to two local techs today. First one checked it over and did a slight adjustment on the (working) truss rod.
He also declared "Oh I have one of those somewhere - shuffled about in the messy (est) corner and came up with an H1270 in original case !! No bridge or tailpice sadly.

Probably worth picking up that one. Bridge & tailpiece are easy to procure (although not necessarily original - doesn't matter)

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by kkrell

Probably worth picking up that one. Bridge & tailpiece are easy to procure (although not necessarily original - doesn't matter)

I'll admit I was tempted - return the one I just bought and offer him a lot less to buy it, and get it sorted out, but ... he's a nice guy, scratching a living, and needs the money more than I -so I told him what I paid for mine and left the idea in his head.

[Don Lampson]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I'll admit I was tempted - return the one I just bought and offer him a lot less to buy it, and get it sorted out, but ... he's a nice guy, scratching a living, and needs the money more than I -so I told him what I paid for mine and left the idea in his head.

If your tech has the same model in far better condition, send that icky old one back. Give him the same money for the one he has! He might even get it set up for you with new strings? Heck, it's only a guitar, not some poor cat or dog, headed for the pound to be "put down", if you don't give it a home...

Back when I played a 12er, I had a new nut made so the smaller string was on the bottom. I was told that's how the original set up was. It makes quite a difference when using a thumb, & finger picks... I was also told having the smaller string on top became popular because it works better when a flat pick is used... I don't know if either story is true? I just wanted to believe in something.. HawHawHaw!

Don