A comparison of flattop and archtop acoustic tones! (AUDIO)

[rpguitar]

Hey everyone,

A recent thread here about archtops (that has since scrolled off the first page) inspired me to put together a comparison demo of some classic flattop and archtop acoustic tones. Included are the following:

Flattops:
1989 Martin HD-28 (dread, spruce/IRW)
2011 Martin 000-18GE (000, spruce/mahogany)

Archtops:
1947 Gibson Super 400 (18" non-cutaway, spruce/maple)
1947 Gibson L-5N (17" non-cutaway, spruce/maple)
2011 Erich Solomon Imperial (16" soft cutaway, spruce/maple)

These are all 100% acoustic, carved solid wood instruments.

Details:
I use a Dunlop Tortex .88mm (green) pick for all guitars. All strings are 12-53 bronze, with 80/20 on the 000-18GE and Solomon, and PB's on the rest. Guitars were recorded into a stereo mic pair consisting of a Beyerdynamic MC930 small diaphragm condenser pointing at the 12th fret, and a Shure KSM-32 large diaphragm condenser pointing at the bridge, both from about 12" away. There is only a little compression (2:1 ratio) and reverb applied to the instruments, and all have the same treatment.

Here is a link to the Soundclick page for this audio demo.

[JEllis1789]

Well, heck, with playing like that you make them all sound good! I especially like the old-timey sound of the '47 Gibson.

[rpguitar]

The playing is modest as I tried to keep it consistent among the guitars. My main point was to share the archtop tones. This board is flattop-biased (as is the guitar world in general), and from time to time there are questions about archtops with very variable responses from the collective peanut gallery.

I simply wanted to demonstrate a comparison of the two kinds of guitars played in more or less an identical way - not jazz for the archtops and folk for the flattops, for example. Same strings, same pick, same content.

Thanks for listening!

[silvereagle48]

An excellent post. thanks

[Taylorplayer]

Great post - thanks!

[rpguitar]

Bump cuz this scrolled off way too fast...

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Very interesting, thank you.

[mr. beaumont]

Nice demo.

Hopefully this will prove archtops are a little more versatile than folks think...

That said, they do their "trick" better than anything...I could strum chords on my archtop, but when I pick it up, it just moves me to play differently...

[theaxeman]

I think it was a fabulous demonstration.

The tone differences are wonderful!

[dave251]

What string gauges did you use?

I found the archtops to have a dryer, more harmonically simple tone.

However, you just can't just rate the "tonal" differences. With anyone who has experience with a good archtop, the recognition of how much "cut" the instrument has is really of more importance than "tone"; a GOOD archtop has the ability to cut through a mix of instruments...where the flattop gets thin and wheezy.

For example, on the HD28...which is usually considered a bluegrass style guitar, the trebles in this sample are actually pretty fat. BUT, you get that guitar in a mix with a bluegrass combo, and the tone will tend to "thin out" on the single note lines.

My point here is that all of these are pretty great sounding guitars, with the HD28 being the most harmonically complex, and the new archtop has the most "simple" tone. I'm sure that it will grow in complexity as the years go by....each style of guitar has it's own use, it's own slice of harmonics and projection. In otherwords, it's own place in the tool box. You are indeed fortunate to have such a palette to choose from.

[cjd-player]

A wonderful comparison.
Thank you very much for doing that and posting it.
It is very educational.

[rpguitar]

Originally Posted by dave251

What string gauges did you use?

I found the archtops to have a dryer, more harmonically simple tone.

However, you just can't just rate the "tonal" differences. With anyone who has experience with a good archtop, the recognition of how much "cut" the instrument has is really of more importance than "tone"; a GOOD archtop has the ability to cut through a mix of instruments...where the flattop gets thin and wheezy.

The strings are all 12-53 D'Addarios, with 80/20s on the Solomon and the 000-18GE, and PB's on the rest.

The thing about archtops is that they are always pigeon-holed into that "cut through the mix" category. But they can be so much more than that, and very intimate/articulate/sensitive instruments for the solo guitarist as well. I personally bond with them more than with flattops, and I do not play big band jazz! I play a lot of solo acoustic guitar things - ranging from Brazilian bossa and MPB to vintage 1930s "plectrum guitar" style pieces to chord-melody arrangements of both jazz standards and modern pop tunes. And my own jazz-pop-unclassifiable compositions as well. Really, almost anything from an acoustic guitar repertoire except styles I don't play at all, like country or bluegrass.

Even though the flattops seem more "harmonically complex" (when recorded, especially), in one's hands the fine archtop rewards the player with different, but arguably equally subtle and exquisite musical feedback. It's got a punchy midrange, and the body "pulses" palpably when you drive it harder. When you play softly, overtones ring from the tailpiece (if metal), the strings behind the bridge, and of course inside the box itself.

Anyway, I can't argue that the stereotypes are there for a reason, but archtops are really exciting instruments in the right hands and with a player who is willing to coax from them what they are willing to deliver.

And... thanks for listening!

[jricc]

Real nice demo, I liked the sound of the archtops much more that I thought I would, esp the Gibson S400.