Pick Up The World -- Anyone Own One???

[Charmed Life Picks]

I've spoken to several members here about this system, and was able to acquire a clean used one from a fellow AGFer. The folks I've spoken to have had very mixed experiences with this rig, and in fact both of them found it too much trouble to deal with. However, I'm driven to find the perfect pickup, and the reports I've heard have said this is the closest thing in the universe to an actually microphone.

Has anyone else tried these? If so, what were/are your experiences?

Thanks Very Much,
Scott Memmer

[MrErikJ]

I have a PUTW 54 in my cedar Alvarez dread wired to the ring of my LB6. It has a very natural sound and does seem more like a mic than a SBT. Usually the LB6 doesn't work with SBTs as it has a mixed phase piezo crystals but I was able to blend it with the 54 without phase issues, which reinforces my belief that they're not "pickups" in the conventional sense. Much like an internal mic, it was prone to boominess and I had to engage a pretty deep bass cut on my Baggs MixPro and goose its gain to make it blend reasonably with the LB6. It became too much trouble to deal with so I just use the LB6.

If I was to use PUTW exclusively, I would recommend something like the Dynamic Trio or Duo and power it with an endpin preamp and then into a good outboard preamp for EQ. I think the tone is excellent but you may want the additional presence and flexibility of their UST and they definitely need power close to the guitar. An outboard preamp with a good EQ and notch wouldn't hurt, nor would a soundhole cover.

[Dadzmad]

I have a Guild S4CE (very late model Songbird) that has a Fishman Matrix UST and built in preamp - primitive and real quacky. I added a PUTW Quackbuster wired in parallel and it totally transformed this guitar for the better. Cost a bill for the unit and another bill for a difficult install on this very thin guitar. The original preamp has a phase switch. It was a very successful upgrade as far as sound goes. Downside is that it goes through 9v batteries and the output is significantly reduced. Another plus is this really did not mess with the original electronics as I wanted to keep it original as possible as I think it's a sleeper.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

I've spoken to several members here about this system, and was able to acquire a clean used one from a fellow AGFer. The folks I've spoken to have had very mixed experiences with this rig, and in fact both of them found it too much trouble to deal with. However, I'm driven to find the perfect pickup, and the reports I've heard have said this is the closest thing in the universe to an actually microphone.

Has anyone else tried these? If so, what were/are your experiences?

Thanks Very Much,
Scott Memmer

I've used a PUTW #54 for a long time, coupled with an internal or external condenser mic (solo fingerstyle). It's an excellent pickup and I've found no reason to replace it with anything else. It requires proper installation and requires locating the first gain/impedance buffering stage close to the pickup, neither of which is much "trouble" at all, as those requirements are quite mundane and only need to be done once.

In my opinion, it has better sonic and behavioral performance than any other SBT I have experienced, at least for my ears and uses.

[guitaniac]

I'm really liking the results of blending the PUTW I/O UST with the iRig mic, especially for recording. The iRig preamp is designed for blending in a second source if desired. To my surprise, it works well with the passive I/O UST. The caveat is that its a weak signal out which must be boosted at another point in the signal chain.

It should be mentioned that the I/O UST puts out a much stronger signal than the SBTs. It sounds pretty good as a single source pickup, and I have no noise problem using it with an outboard preamp and relatively short (10') instrument cable.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Buried today, but will respond individually in a day or two.

I'm really excited about installing this pickup.

I do not own an electric and never have, so I'm a total idiot on pedals, DIs, EQs, etc., so forgive my ignorance here.

TECH QUESTION: I will also be installing the endpin preamp jack they recommend, but I understand the output is still low. Is there a way electronically for me to insert a second preamp with EQ to boost the signal further before it plugs into an amp?

I mention EQ as well because I've heard from several folks that, like a real microphone, the PUTW has a tendency towards feedback. My initial playing situation for this will ONLY be solo, so will be testing in that mode.

Thanks in advance for your responses and expertise. Back at ya in a day or two.

scott

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Buried today, but will respond individually in a day or two.

I'm really excited about installing this pickup.

I do not own an electric and never have, so I'm a total idiot on pedals, DIs, EQs, etc., so forgive my ignorance here.

TECH QUESTION: I will also be installing the endpin preamp jack they recommend, but I understand the output is still low. Is there a way electronically for me to insert a second preamp with EQ to boost the signal further before it plugs into an amp?

I mention EQ as well because I've heard from several folks that, like a real microphone, the PUTW has a tendency towards feedback. My initial playing situation for this will ONLY be solo, so will be testing in that mode.

Thanks in advance for your responses and expertise. Back at ya in a day or two.

scott

Yes, you should be able to use most standard outboard preamps by Fishman, Baggs, Tonebone, Fire Eye etc to further condition and EQ your signal. I would generally recommend the Radial Tonebone PZ Deluxe for its clean gain and powerful EQ or the Baggs Para DI as it's also very tweakable and phantom powerable (which is very nice at a gig). The endpin preamp will get your signal down your cable without any degradation but a final boost and EQ before going into the house won't hurt at all.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Buried today, but will respond individually in a day or two.

I'm really excited about installing this pickup.

I do not own an electric and never have, so I'm a total idiot on pedals, DIs, EQs, etc., so forgive my ignorance here.

TECH QUESTION: I will also be installing the endpin preamp jack they recommend, but I understand the output is still low. Is there a way electronically for me to insert a second preamp with EQ to boost the signal further before it plugs into an amp?

I mention EQ as well because I've heard from several folks that, like a real microphone, the PUTW has a tendency towards feedback. My initial playing situation for this will ONLY be solo, so will be testing in that mode.

Thanks in advance for your responses and expertise. Back at ya in a day or two.

scott

Yes, you can use an outboard preamp (for EQ and additional gain, if needed) in addition to using the Power Plug. There IS a school of thought that adding additional gain stages tends to reduce a pickup system's responsiveness to touch, but the benefit from having more EQ control would likely outweigh any negative effects. Lots of folks will use outboard EQ devices with active pickup systems, myself included.

PS Unless you're very fussy about your sound, a simple Boss GE7 seven band graphic equalizer would probably give you all the EQ control and additional gain that you'll need (although I doubt you'll need any additional gain, between the Power Plug and the mixer or amp input which you'll be running to).

[Charmed Life Picks]

Yes, I am RIDICULOUSLY fussy about tone. I hate ALL pickups, and I own Baggs and a Trance Amulet. I'm looking for a p/u that sounds as good as an SM-57. Is that too much to ask?

I'm willing to spend several hundred dollars that will exactly replicate the tone of that pickup, adding as little coloration as humanly possibly, but giving me more gain.

Erik, promise to response at more length to your post. Have heard GREAT things about that Radial unit for several years now.

later & thanks, all,
scott

[guitaniac]

If you want to get as close as possible to an SM57 sound, I'd think that ToneDexter plus a guitar with a good pickup (PUTW I/O UST or PUTW #27) would be your best shot at that goal. USTs and SBTs just don't listen from the same perspective as a mic, but ToneDexter does a good job of simulating a mic's perspective.

BTW, PUTW pickup designer David Enke has a new company. You might want to contact him directly to discuss your plans.
https://opentosourcesensors.com/

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

If you want to get as close as possible to an SM57 sound, I'd think that ToneDexter plus a guitar with a good pickup (PUTW I/O UST or PUTW #27) would be your best shot at that goal. USTs and SBTs just don't listen from the same perspective as a mic, but ToneDexter does a good job of simulating a mic's perspective.

BTW, PUTW pickup designer David Enke has a new company. You might want to contact him directly to discuss your plans.
https://opentosourcesensors.com/

+1 to this, if your budget allows it. You'll get a great sound with many preamps but if you have the active endpin, the Tonedexter will be the equalizer that perfects your pickup tone.

[SpruceTop]

Another +1 for the ToneDexter!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Another +1 for the ToneDexter!

Ken, appreciate it. You'd place this above the Radial units? I've heard great things about them for several years now.

Looking forward to A & Bing the PUTW rig vs the Trance Audio Amulet and give you some feedback. Don't see this happening till probably January, when I come up for air after the Christmas selling season.

Ken, Thanks,

memmer

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Ken, appreciate it. You'd place this above the Radial units? I've heard great things about them for several years now.

Looking forward to A & Bing the PUTW rig vs the Trance Audio Amulet and give you some feedback. Don't see this happening till probably January, when I come up for air after the Christmas selling season.

Ken, Thanks,

memmer

It just depends on what you prefer. The Radial PZ preamps are very powerful, adjustable, and transparent preamp/DIs. They do not color your sound as much as amplify your pickup cleanly and provide you a great deal of control over EQ and feedback. Your PUTW would probably sound great with it. It's a godsend preamp for passive piezos like the Baggs LB6 and the K&K Pure Mini.

The Tonedexter uses modelling to "correct" your pickup's sound to better resemble its mic'd tone. It probably isn't as "powerful" as the Radial but its intention isn't transparent amplification like the Radial's is. It is using digital modeling to shape your pickup's sound whereas the Radial just (cleanly) turns up your pickup's power and gives you a powerful EQ to adjust it to your needs. I think you'll have exceptional tone with either.

[guitaniac]

I recall that the Fishman folks always discouraged the use of the term "modeling" with respect to their "sound imaging" technology. Since what ToneDexter does is a similar (but more user hands-on) process, it might help to clarify that Eric is not using the term modeling in the sense of making one guitar sound like a different guitar. Once created, a ToneDexter WaveMap is a computer program which instructs ToneDexter on how to process the pickup signal so that it simulates the mic signal which was used in the "training" procedure which created that WaveMap.

In other words, ToneDexter (used in conjunction with a specific WaveMap) "models" the sound of your guitar as perceived by a specific mic placed in a specific location relative to your guitar. What most ToneDexter users are doing is experimenting with mic positions to see which WaveMap yields the most pleasing results.