Racial Bias

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Some folks strive to reduce their subconscious prejudices simply because they think it is the right thing to do. Others deny that such inadvertent biases exist or contrive ways to rationalize them.

I've already gone on record saying that I don't see any evidence of racial bias in the hiring practices in the companies I've worked for the last 30 years.

Do people make jokes about other's names (whether first or last)? Yes . . and my name has been the subject of numerous jokes.

But I've never seen us bypass somebody over ethnicity, race, sex, etc when their resume was the best one to choose for a particular job. And we usually interview MULTIPLE candidates . . so the resume isn't the only screening tool we use.

We need smart people with the right skills, and equally as important, we need people who can function in inter-discipline teams to help make decisions. There are few recommendations/decisions that get made here based on the opinion of just ONE person.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I find it hard to believe that somebody taking an online course (in which they never see nor hear the teacher to judge the gender of the teacher) would even take NOTE of whether the teacher's name was male or female.

Yes, one would need to read the article that describes the research to see if the design were rigorous enough to make one believe that the finding can be taken as valid. But the fact that the design seems to have differed only in respect to the name associated with the content, and they found a difference that is reliable (statistically speaking), AND given that our studies point to the same conclusion (that the presence of a female name results changes in attitudes towards work products, experience, and level of compensation), I think we can have some confidence that the findings can be taken at face value. Not with 100% certainty...but with some confidence.

[GHS]

Is there prejudice towards gender? Yes, and sometimes with good reason. I have a good friend who worked in a traditionally male work place. Female was hired. Worked in close proximity with seven other males. After about three months I guess she decided this was not for her. Out came the "sexual harassment" card. Two males under investigation for the claim. Where they out spoken, yes. Where they a bit on the wild side, yes. Where they "stoopit", no. Sixteen and twenty year veterans, not about to jam themselves up with anything like this. Didn't matter. Employer settled for three hundred thousand dollars out of court. After her lawyer took one third she walked away with a new house down the shore. Nice huh? Do you think any other females will be hired now? This is what fuels prejudice.

[Basalt Beach]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I've also heard it said that many have noticed that racism today is far more noticeable in the NORTH than in the SOUTH.

yup!...by casual observation and overheard comments it must be true....

you know you are correct, it must be true, because in the north the folks are easily recognizable & noticeable because they don't wear white sheeted hoods!

[mc1]

Originally Posted by GHS

... Out came the "sexual harassment" card. Two males under investigation for the claim. Were they out spoken, yes. Were they a bit on the wild side, yes. ...

hard to read between the lines on this post. what does out spoken and a bit on the wild side mean? not sure what "jam themselves up with anything like this" means either.

[flaggerphil]

Originally Posted by Psalad

There are pretty much always worse problems, but maybe we can cover those in a different thread?

Indeed. You are right.

[Pitar]

Bias is a natural part of human make-up and certainly not negative. Bias is healthy and usually the inescapable part of our unconscious decision-making processes that work towards good things, for the most part. To sequester it as a bad thing is pretty telling of the lack of understanding of how bias inescapably makes us who we are.

Leave bias out and bring conditioning in. All men are created equal and, like a body placed in motion remains in motion, they remain equal until acted upon by an outside influence. In this case we use the culture the new born is brought into. That's when equality is lost to the behavioral conditioning properties of the culture. That's when the seed of hatred is planted.

Kill all the grandmothers? They're usually the culprits who plant the first seeds of hate into their grandchildren. They were/are the live-in relatives taking care of the babies while momma worked. It might seem to them to be innocuous intent but instead of setting those children in motion with positive thinking and pride in self they fill their heads with reasons to put up defenses to gremlins and demons surely out to get them. When those gremlins and demons are other cultures the children are conditioned to believe they are different. Equality, or the child's sense of it, is distorted. That isn't bias. That's conditioning.

I use the grandmother example because it's one real and historically correct aspect of a culture's impact on a child's sense of place in this world. Charity truly does start in the home. To taint a child's sense of self as anything but on a fair and impartial footing is a very sad state of our societies at large but it points to the home as the source for conditioning hatred into children.

Hatred is strictly a human experience and nothing in the physical world outside of humanity can be found to exemplify it. People are conditioned by it before they step out into that world. It comes from the home. It isn't the human bias that's a natural part of the psyche. It's conditioning that cultures imprint on their prodigy and that's what keeps the cultural lines hard and fast. Remove the conditioning and the lines will fuzz out until a single homogenization takes places.

That's the moment when "Ye shall come together..." is experienced.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by GHS

Is there prejudice towards gender? Yes, and sometimes with good reason. I have a good friend who worked in a traditionally male work place. Female was hired. Worked in close proximity with seven other males. After about three months I guess she decided this was not for her. Out came the "sexual harassment" card. Two males under investigation for the claim. Where they out spoken, yes. Where they a bit on the wild side, yes. Where they "stoopit", no. Sixteen and twenty year veterans, not about to jam themselves up with anything like this. Didn't matter. Employer settled for three hundred thousand dollars out of court. After her lawyer took one third she walked away with a new house down the shore. Nice huh? Do you think any other females will be hired now? This is what fuels prejudice.

We don't know the whole story, maybe there was a reason why she got the settlement? Maybe a really good reason? Maybe it was a very unfair workplace for her with a legitimate gripe. Without more info I'm not sure any of us can reasonably criticize her.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I've already gone on record saying that I don't see any evidence of racial bias in the hiring practices in the companies I've worked for the last 30 years.

Do people make jokes about other's names (whether first or last)? Yes . . and my name has been the subject of numerous jokes.

But I've never seen us bypass somebody over ethnicity, race, sex, etc when their resume was the best one to choose for a particular job. And we usually interview MULTIPLE candidates . . so the resume isn't the only screening tool we use.

We need smart people with the right skills, and equally as important, we need people who can function in inter-discipline teams to help make decisions. There are few recommendations/decisions that get made here based on the opinion of just ONE person.

Seriously? How involved were you in the hiring practices and screening of candidates. I'm curious about what the percentage of qualified non-white applicants would have been over that same 30 years. And even if things were absolutely fair and unbiased in your industry, that doesn't make it so across the board. Do you really believe that overt, covert, or unconscious racism hasn't influenced hiring decisions in this country for the last 30 years?

[zabdart]

Racism is, in a sense, like the shingles virus. You know the ad: "If you'd had the chicken pox, the shingles virus is already in you." It's the same with racism or any other kind of prejudice. Once you've been infected with that disease, you can beat it into remission, but it never really leaves you.

[GHS]

Originally Posted by mc1

hard to read between the lines on this post. what does out spoken and a bit on the wild side mean? not sure what "jam themselves up with anything like this" means either.

Loud and silly. Saying and doing things that might make the average person step back and say "Whoaa" Jam up means to get yourself into legal trouble by your own hand.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Some folks strive to reduce their subconscious prejudices simply because they think it is the right thing to do. Others deny that such inadvertent biases exist or contrive ways to rationalize them.

And I think it can be very hard for some members of the majority race to recognize or even conceive that biases exist, because they haven't experienced them first hand.

I was raised in a conservative, white, Christan family, and taught that all races were equal. In the 60's, my grandmother made a trip to the south to support the civil rights movement as part of her church activities.

At the same time, a number of my friends told racist jokes and made racist comments, primarily directed at African Americans, but also Latinos, in a most gross, crude, ignorant, and prejudiced way. They were portrayed as stupid, inferior, and deserving of scorn and ridicule. It was obvious that they were getting this from their parents.

There was not a single non white student in any of the schools I attended, until I got to college. I remember when the first black family moved into our subdivision. This was in Connecticut, and I was 14. Many people were outraged, and talked about selling and leaving, because once "they" came into the neighborhood, property values would go down. "They" wouldn't keep up the maintenance of their home, and it was nothing but a purely racist reaction.

My mother was was appalled, and seeing her response made a big impression on me. At the same time, all of the prejudice and negativity I had heard from friends had an effect, too. I think it is very hard to grow up exposed to negative thinking, especially racism, without that influencing you in some way. Even if you come to understand and realize the injustice and harm that comes from racism, it can still be play a role in your unconscious thinking. And IMO, racism has not been eradicated in the USA, or minimalized to such an extent as to not be a significant factor.

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by Psalad

We don't know the whole story, maybe there was a reason why she got the settlement? Maybe a really good reason? Maybe it was a very unfair workplace for her with a legitimate gripe. Without more info I'm not sure any of us can reasonably criticize her.

What's the difference? If I understand correctly, it's being offered as a possible reason why employers might prefer males over females. They paid out $300k plus fees, and possibly PR problems. Sounds like something to want to avoid in the future to me.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Wengr

What's the difference? If I understand correctly, it's being offered as a possible reason why employers might prefer males over females. They paid out $300k plus fees, and possibly PR problems. Sounds like something to want to avoid in the future to me.

Is it a legitimate reason when people mistreat the other gender and suggest that's why they might be discriminated against? I don't think so...

[kydave]

Kill all the grandmothers? They're usually the culprits who plant the first seeds of hate into their grandchildren. They were/are the live-in relatives taking care of the babies while momma worked.

I'm not sure when and where you grew up, but that most assuredly was not the norm for me or ANY of my peers.

And I think it can be very hard for some members of the majority race to recognize or even conceive that biases exist, because they haven't experienced them first hand.

I was raised in a conservative, white, Christan family, and taught that all races were equal. ...
There was not a single non white student in any of the schools I attended, until I got to college.

Similar, while growing up in an entirely white middle class neighborhood, I chose to go to an inner city high school rather than the new, mostly (REALLY mostly) white high school in my neighborhood. The school was about 60/40 white/black. I had a good time in school with no problems.

I accepted a job with City Parks & Rec as a lifeguard at the city's largest park pool, in the entirely black area of town the Summer between my jr & sr. HS year. It was a fun Summer and very educational.

I still see race issues in America as a two way street, though, with responsibility for improving it needing to come from both sides.