Learning to sing properly

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

That makes sense. The humming is helpful, too, though because you can hear the pitches from your guitar and match them before you try to do lyrics. Very helpful in staying in key later. And gives you a chance to perfect your timing before you start covering up any tempo mistakes with singing.

Another thing I find helpful with this is becoming aware that much teaching on the internet shows a strumming pattern for the rhythm that seems to be taken from the idea of playing rhythm guitar with a band, where you would have the job of maintaining this one steady pattern. Imo, this does not sound good when playing solo and can sound pretty bad. Some people sound very robotic. If you're trying to do that, it is very difficult to sing with that. It's much easier and sounds better, to me, to relax and listen to what I'm playing, set the rhythm that works for my phrasing, add fills between lyric, etc. I'm still keeping a beat of course, but it's much easier than just a strumming pattern that may or may not really fit what I'm singing. Others should weigh in. This is just my view as a singer/songwriter.

Agreed. I am more of a fingerpicker. Simple chord strumming is great when playing with an accompanist, but ultimately boring by itself. My next step in the plan is to graduate to a simple "1-6 Pinch 4-6-4 pinch 4-6-4" alternating bass pattern, while trying to sing.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Thanks. Still a C-note. Looks like there is a 30-day demo, though. Thanks

That could be enough for your purposes. If you want to PM, I can tell you more how I used it. Maybe it'd save you some time.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

That could be enough for your purposes. If you want to PM, I can tell you more how I used it. Maybe it'd save you some time.

Done. Thanks.

[Mycroft]

Anyone have any thoughts on what criteria I should use or questions to ask in finding a voice instructor? Dusty Strings has 4 instructors.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

alcohol is involved, .....But I'd like to learn to properly sing on pitch, as I have no idea...

Thoughts? Tips? Tools?

TW

Alcohol can relax you and being relaxed is key for proper singing. However Alcohol is not good for the vocal chords. It drys them out and can eventually damage them. all things in moderation.

A good instructer can help you get in touch with you body and can help you discover techniques for relaxation and how to break bad habits (bad posture, improper breathing, stress related tension......), some that might have been with you for a life time. However, Knowing when you have a good instructor is difficult if you never had lessons.

There are many schools of thought when it comes to teaching. Some work with visualization, others work on physical exercise to teach and strengthen the muscles needed to sing, some do both. I am an advocate of tying a couple of different instructors over the course of your first year. Trust your gut. When you find someone you feel comfortable with you will know.

Quick addition,,there are some Fantastic singers who are terrible at teaching.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

No, I can't tune by ear, but can generally tell when I am out of tune, or when a string is off and can tune it by ear to the other strings. I can't just produce a "G" on demand, I need a note to try and match.

It's not necessary to pull a particular note out of the hat, but the ability to sing intervals is really necessary. There are lists of intervals integral to pop songs to help learn to use the voice. One example: octave. "Some-where (over the rainbow)".

Billy Holiday, Bob Dylan and many others used what they had to great effect. I wouldn't say either was a great singer, but what they did worked.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

It's not necessary to pull a particular note out of the hat, but the ability to sing intervals is really necessary. There are lists of intervals integral to pop songs to help learn to use the voice. One example: octave. "Some-where (over the rainbow)".

Billy Holiday, Bob Dylan and many others used what they had to great effect. I wouldn't say either was a great singer, but what they did worked.

Agreed. Good point. If you can "carry a tune" you can sing the right intervals, you may need help getting in/staying in the right key. If you can't, you need to work on singing intervals and maybe ear-training for them.

[mattbn73]

If it isn't something you've practiced a lot, all the practicing you can do will help. Sing every time you're in the shower or in the car alone etc. etc. really try to work on vocal production.

If you're serious, record yourself singing something every day and listen back. Try to listen as if it's not you. Don't be judgmental/critical. Don't take it personally or get butt-hurt, but just try to hear what is the one thing you need to work on the most etc.

Recording is much more important with voice than with other instruments, for the simple fact that you basically can't HEAR at all what you really sound like. You hear your own voice through bone conduction , as much as with your ears. So, internally, you're speaking/singing voice has a nice big, warm sound, which doesn't reflect your "real voice" very accurately. That's why we basically all have the "that's not my voice" reaction when we hear ourselves recorded.

Pitch perception is also very different, which is why a lot of great musicians can't sing in tune at a very basic level. Vocal production has more to do with accurate pitch than just your ear- perception of pitch anyway.

These are all very good reasons to get a good teacher. There's one more reason as well though: much of the musculature and inner workings involved with singing well are INVOLUNTARY. It's not a key, valve or string you depress, and it's not a simple embouchure which develops. The art of singing involves a lot of nebulous-sounding visualization-type language for producing certain sounds or for keeping pitch up or combating sharp pitch etc. etc.

"Raise your eyebrows", "make an inner smile", "keep the tone moving forward" aren't the kind of tangible things that you associate with playing other instruments, but they're surprisingly effective for vocal production. They're also really difficult to do without a teacher.

[KarenB]

Mycroft
" I can't just produce a "G" on demand, I need a note to try and match."
That's called perfect pitch and most singers don't have that gift. Even really great ones.

"I do know some good singers, but am not sure how well they could teach, so may have to see what Dusty Strings has..."
Yeah, just because someone can sing well, doesn't mean they have the skill to teach.

Good luck on your journey!

[DaveKell]

I recently met a legendary old local Texas musician who came into my booth at a craft fair. He told me about a long running jam session he hosts every Friday night at a local cafe and invited me to it. The next Friday I remembered it about an hour after it was scheduled to start. I hopped into my truck and ran down to it. When I got there he instantly recognized me and asked "where's your guitar?". I said I thought I'd just come down and listen the first time. No way he was having that. He ran out to his car and brought me in an old Gibson. By the time I arrived the only chair left was in the middle of the floor in the small room. I was surrounded by guys much older than me seated around all 4 walls. They all had western hats and boots on. I very quickly realized the routine was a mic on a stand was passed down the line and everybody had to sing and play a song.

The music was all ancient country. There I was in a room full of total strangers and would soon be expected to sing in public for the first time in over 20 years. No benefit of a few beers first to relax. Even though I grew up in northern Indiana, which wasn't exactly country music territory at the time, I did have one advantage. I lived in a rural area and would spend my days in the summer hanging out in a truck stop run by two Tennessee sisters named Eve and Nadine (of course). The jukebox was always playing the songs I was hearing at this jam.

The mic got passed to me and I did a more than passable version of Folsom Prison. My deep voice, quaking with nerves, added to the Johnny Cashness of my performance. I got applause all throughout the restaurant. My next turn I did an old Carter family tune I still remembered the words to. At the end of the night I got a lot of pats on the back and was asked to keep coming back.

My singing has improved exponentially in this setting over the course of several more visits to the jam. We're all amateurs anyway so there's no pressure. My advice would be this. If you want to improve your singing put yourself in a situation where you have to sing, a lot.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Agreed. Good point. If you can "carry a tune" you can sing the right intervals, you may need help getting in/staying in the right key. If you can't, you need to work on singing intervals and maybe ear-training for them.

Yes, ear training for singing! If you listen enough to begin to understand the intervals they'll naturally become more singable. Here's a link to a Cole Porter tune with some nice ascending half-step jumps along with some great melodic syncopation:

https://youtu.be/a7kXW2pwMO0

The vocal is clear, precise and at a relaxed tempo. More "sophisticated" singers
may have less distinct intervals in their style, using linear lines and slurring or crooning. Merle Haggard is sneaky good like that. You THINK you know the line, but duplicating what he's doing is far beyond mere notes and quite sophisticated. But as Cole Porter said, "Anything Goes".

[Nailpicker]

I agree with those who said "get a singing/vocal coach."!! Instant feed back on what you are doing wrong is helpful. It's important to undo bad habits and not to let bad habits become ingrained and not to start new bad habits. It's not just about pitch, although that is important. It's also about how to form/enunciate words (which can also help with pitchiness and air control). For one quick example: The word "one." I'd sing/pronounce it "onnnnne." Holding the 'n' which becomes nasal and can cause my vocal chords to wobble. I learned it should be, "oooone." Holding on the vowel, not the consonant.

One book + CD my teacher recommended in conjunction with my face to face lessons, and I'm glad she did, is Roger Love's Set Your Voice Free.
It has a full set of voice control lessons/exercises demonstrated on CD and you follow them and gradually extend them, following the examples on CD in building block fashion. The book helps explain some things.

Many people sing. It's good for the heart and the mind, can give us an outlet and can bring us pleasure. In my view not many people sing well, including many big name professionals. It seems many people think if they can talk, they can sing. But the voice is IMO one of, if not the very most difficult musical instrument to master. Just singing everyday is not the key. Learning to sing correctly and practicing correctly, not ingraining bad form/habits is important.

Mattbn73 hits some pertinent issues.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Another thing I find helpful with this is becoming aware that much teaching on the internet shows a strumming pattern for the rhythm that seems to be taken from the idea of playing rhythm guitar with a band, where you would have the job of maintaining this one steady pattern. Imo, this does not sound good when playing solo and can sound pretty bad. Some people sound very robotic. If you're trying to do that, it is very difficult to sing with that. It's much easier and sounds better, to me, to relax and listen to what I'm playing, set the rhythm that works for my phrasing, add fills between lyric, etc. I'm still keeping a beat of course, but it's much easier than just a strumming pattern that may or may not really fit what I'm singing. Others should weigh in. This is just my view as a singer/songwriter.

I happened to see an example of this, so thought I'd post it even though we may have moved on from this discussion. The strumming pattern in this video sounds perfectly fine without the lyrics, but, imo, does not match the lyrics at all. Somewhere, sometime a band may have covered this and the rhythm guitar may have used this with other percussion going on as well, I don't know. But for a guitarist alone, singing the lyrics, which have a different rhythm, on top of this, for me at least, would be very difficult, whereas, for me, singing this song while strumming a pattern that matches the beat of the lyrics is very easy.