I'd like to play Jazz please

[IPYF]

So not so long ago I got myself an Eastman 810CE archtop. This was a completely frivolous purchase, but now I'm keen to actually get my money's worth.

I've been playing for about a decade now, and I've owned plenty of acoustic and electric instruments. With the purchase of the archtop I'm determined that I want to become a good jazz guitarist.

My problem is that I don't really listen to jazz at all, let alone guitar jazz, so subsequently I don't really know where to start. People keep telling me to just surf youtube but it's not working for me. You come across plenty of the greats, and plenty of jam tracks but I just can't find an entry point.

I was wondering if there is anything that jazz cats could recommend that I look at in particular to get off learning on the right foot. I'd say my capabilities for jazz would be at the intermediate level already since I've been playing so long.

I know this is kinda a hairy question since everyone's tastes are different but I'm just looking for an entry point. Probably more rhythm techniques than lead as well. I already know how to solo and shred.

[Neal Pert]

If you don't listen to Jazz, why on earth do you want to play it? It's a huge investment in time and attention and the yield-- if you don't really like it much-- is incredibly meager. No money, no chicks, no gigs. Anyone who plays will tell you it's a labor of love.

Also: you should define jazz. If you mean smooth jazz stuff, knock yourself out. Noodle over pop tunes. If you mean something more than that, apprentice yourself to a great teacher, learn, study hard, and above all: LISTEN.

I say this, by the way, as a guy who's spent the better part of his life seriously studying and playing jazz drums on a professional level.

[IPYF]

Primarily its because I no longer feel challenged by my instrument and I need to change tack as dramatically as possible.

I've been playing rock and metal for years. I've done punk, played with indie bands, country bands, made electronic pop. I can pinch, sweep, shred, tap, slap and groove. My left hand is exceptionally fast. My primary instrument is the bass, and I've been gigging in the metal scene here for the last seven years and I'm bored of all of it and it's making me a lazy and sloppy musician. I'm constantly on autopilot because I don't have to extend myself to get by.

Jazz is hard for me, especially from a psychological point of view. It's just such a foreign concept and I want to expand on what I can already do. Acoustic jazz is harder again because I don't have an amp as a backbone.

I'd love to get a teacher but I can't afford the time, so I have to rely on finding content to learn and replicate elsewhere..

[815C]

This teaches you an entry level jazz chord solo for the tune ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE. It might be a good starting point to some jazz chords.

ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE

[mr. beaumont]

You'll never learn jazz unless it is the music that plays in your head, and the only way to get there is tons of listening. (and then of course, learning lots of tunes and chords and years of practice)

I've never met anyone who could play jazz who wasn't obsessed with listening to it. Start getting obsessed.

Start with Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. Then buy a record led by the sidemen on that record...then albums by the sidemen on those records...and so on...

If you don't care for jazz listening, playing it is not for you.

Oh, and shred will get you nowhere in jazz if you can't play changes. jazz tunes don't stay diatonic...gotta address the chords...

[stanron]

I can't believe I'm posting this. Admittedly there is a certain amount of fiz imbibed but, stuff jazz, why not learn some folk tunes? Everyone likes to dance.

[IPYF]

Originally Posted by 815C

This teaches you an entry level jazz chord solo for the tune ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE. It might be a good starting point to some jazz chords.

ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE

This. I like this. I can play this and it'll teach me chords I don't know about yet. Perfect.

I can't believe I'm posting this. Admittedly there is a certain amount of fiz imbibed but, stuff jazz, why not learn some folk tunes? Everyone likes to dance.

I can play folk. Been playing it since small times. Been there, done that. Still like to dance regardless.

[Neal Pert]

Just trying to warn you that to get good at it-- well, it's a long, deep rabbit hole.

Start with some Jamey Abersold books and playalongs. But most importantly, LISTEN. Find a genuinely great guitar player deep in the tradition and try to emulate and understand what he's up to. Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, etc.


M

[IPYF]

I'm not phased by the challenge. I don't really play much new stuff more so I want something I can sink my teeth into. Otherwise I'm just going to be a farty old cat who can play fast pentatonics which might impress 16 year olds in guitar stores.

Thanks for the recommendation of Joe Pass. He's got a slimy groove I think I could really get into.

[Davis Webb]

You will get nowhere without a teacher. This isnt a do it yourself project. Find a jazz teacher and start learning those chord inversions all over the neck. Then you have to site read or you wont be able to learn the standards. Then you have to listen to Miles and Wes and Pat and on and on.

I never met a jazz player who didnt first get a degree in it or at least a 3 year diploma. Learning jazz without a teacher, good luck....do tell us how you are making out. I agree that it will stretch you like crazy but its the same as learning classical, its not easy to self teach. There is so much theory to get your head around and so much music you have to know to appreciate it.

I would take a long look at Lenny Breau.

[fingerpickin]

I think small steps are really the way to start. Obviously if your interested in learning to play jazz then you should start listening to some of the masters.....Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Joe Pass, Pat Metheny etc and figure out what it is that you like listening to. In terms of small steps, I've just written a blog on guide-tone lines. These are melodic lines built from chord tones that can act as a way into improvising. You'll often hear guide-tone lines as background figures in arrangements. I've got an example in notation form in the link below. Listen to the video and have a go at playing the single line from the TAB. Now, if you can play the single lines along with the video then we'll be playing a jazz duet.....small steps....

NB In the video, 2nd time around, when I start to embellish the original line, try to keep playing the original line and it will act like a background figure

In the words of Clark Terry "Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate"......good luck !

http://www.fingerpickingguitar.org/guide-tone-lines/

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by IPYF

I'm not phased by the challenge. I don't really play much new stuff more so I want something I can sink my teeth into. Otherwise I'm just going to be a farty old cat who can play fast pentatonics which might impress 16 year olds in guitar stores.

Thanks for the recommendation of Joe Pass. He's got a slimy groove I think I could really get into.

This is all good, but jazz isn't about the "challenge". Jazz can be really simple (much simpler than a lot of rock). You don't need a lot of notes, or a lot of speed, to play a great jazz solo.
You don't play jazz because you want to become a more "advanced" player. You play jazz because you really love jazz and don't want to play anything else.

I'm not trying to put you off, but I agree with Jeff and Neal Pert. Good jazz musicians spend years - decades - getting to be good. It becomes your life, in a way other forms of music don't, simply because it takes so much longer to master. (Most pros will say you never stop; you're learning till you die...)

My advice: don't start with Joe Pass (cool as he might be). Study the history and development of jazz - because you need to know where Pass came from.
For guitarists, listen (and listen good and long) to ALL the following (minimum), in this order:
EDDIE LANG
DJANGO REINHARDT
CHARLIE CHRISTIAN
WES MONTGOMERY
(There are 100 others anyone else can recommend, but the last 3 are the giants every jazz guitarist knows, and Lang is important as an influence on Django at least. The first 3 were an influence on Wes, who was an influence on everyone who came after - particularly Joe Pass.)

And listen to the following too - because you should not think of yourself as a guitarist, but as a musician who happens to play guitar:
LOUIS ARMSTRONG
DUKE ELLINGTON
CHARLIE PARKER
MILES DAVIS
THELONIUS MONK
(Again, 100s of others one could recommend: Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Art Tatum, Dizzy Gillespie, Wayne Shorter, etc - but if there's any of the above 5 you don't like, you can't really call yourself a jazz musician IMO.)

Take some Charlie Christian recordings and try learning the melodies and solos by ear (making sure you learn the chords first). Try to resist looking up tab or sheet music. Oh yes - if you don't yet read notation, learn it! Every jazz musician is musically literate (with the possible exception of one or two geniuses of the past).

If you already play blues, that's not a bad way into the attitude of jazz improvisation. (Better than rock anyway.) Blues is the soul of jazz - like jazz with all the fancy hamonies stripped away. All jazz musicians know how to play blues, it's one of the foundation building blocks of the genre.
(The fact you're talking about "slimy groove" above is a good sign . I'd say that's a better priority than wanting to master a whole lot of fancy chords. Feel is more important than harmonic complexity in jazz.)

I also agree with Neal about Aebersold playalongs - excellent practice resources.

For well-qualified advice, register on the following sites:
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/index.php
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/
The latter is obviously guitar-specific, but the former is better (although generally more advanced).

[brahmz118]

One of the finest and purest acoustic guitar jazz players I've heard is Eric Skye, who posts on this and other forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQkKtv02hw

His style uses the advantages of the steel-string acoustic guitar like no one else I've ever heard - ringing chords with open strings, tasteful percussive right hand stuff that wouldn't sound the same on electric or classical, some elegant fingerstyle that uses the width of the fretboard, etc. Now that I think about it, his style might be better suited for flattops than archtops, though I'm just speculating.

I bought an acoustic archtop 5 years ago and I am mid-journey in terms of expanding my jazz repertoire. I wanted to focus on acoustic jazz and take advantage of the archtop's powerful mid-rangey bark. I've used 2 books primarily: Chords and Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar by Arnie Berle, and Swing and Big Band Guitar: Four-to-the-Bar Comping in the Style of Freddie Green by Charlton Johnson.

I am very comfortable playing like the guy sitting to Bucky's right in the first minute of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGysuNgNbE

It's not flashy, and it's primarily accompaniment / backup, but at least I am functional in all 12 keys if you put some changes in front of me. I'm hoping to branch out into more chord melody and lead playing, when time allows.

[saxonblue]

If you're from a rock/metal background you could be interested in the work from the likes of Guthrie Govan & Larry Carlton.

Govan does nearly all his work on his Surh electrics & can shred better than most headbangers but with a more solid jazz foundation than any of them.

Still found this clip of him playing some nice Gibson round shoulder (J-45, AJ, SJ ? I dunno) with his mate on a Gibson Jumbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD2uFmH3SnE

[frankhond]

Look up pat metheny and john scofield. There is a video on youtube where they both trade licks. Totally different players. Very cool.

Oh and there are plenty jazz cats that didnt go to school. Wes montgomery... And what about joe pass, where did he graduate?