The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:44 PM
tlguitars tlguitars is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Americus, GA
Posts: 26
Default

Here's the deal with Bar Chords. Your 1st finger has nothing to do it.

90% of chording is your thumb and the tips of your other fingers.

1. Try this. Place a pencil on the edge of a table, so it's 2/3rds on 1/3rd off. Now pick up the pencil with your 1st finger and your thumb of your fretting hand but keep your 1st finger completely straight. You have to grab it behind the 1st knuckle right? With the largest portion of the pad of your thumb and with /or just behind the 1st knuckle of your 1st finger right? The strength of the grab comes from your thumb, not your 1st finger. You might feel the muscle in your finger flex or "grab" but odds are is because it's trying to stay straight not that it's adding any focused strength to the grab, it's addign pressure but not strength. The Chordal strength comes from your thumb.

2. Keep the thumb in the middle of your chord, try and make an A bar chord. Bar the 5th fret. Tip* of the 2nd finger (middle) on the G string (3rd string), 6th fret. Tip of the 3rd finger (ring) A string (5th string) 7th fret. Tip of the 4th finger (pinky) on the D string (4th string) 7th fret.

Fattest portion of the pad of your Thumb middle of the back of the neck, straight up and down right in the center of the 6th fret. Now there should be enough space between the bottom of the fretboard (the side without driver "position" dots) and your palm to fit an egg in. Fret the strings with your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th fingers and pull your bar up against the 5th fret with your thumb not your 1st finger. Like your picking up the pencil off the end of the table. Pull your bar toward your thumb. Like your making a fist with your fingers in chord shape. Pressure comes from your fretting fingers but the strength comes from your thumb.

*= Tip is the tip of your finger not the pad. That way there is .5" to .75" of bone behind your tip to push with your finger pressure. Solid resistance. If you use the pad of your fingers the only thing to help resist the string pressure is your finger nail. Try squeezing the tip of any finger and your thumb, do it hard to make it hurt. Solid and focused pressure, like a hammer right? Now try the same fingers but the pads. It's a wash and you can feel the skin pad slush from side to side, right? Give the bar support fingers a chance to help the bar and not touch any other strings like a hammer and not a slushy.

Hope that helps.
__________________
Todd Lunneborg
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:58 PM
tlguitars tlguitars is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Americus, GA
Posts: 26
Default

3. Remember you build callouses on the tips of your fingers but you also will build them on the skin in between the knuckle joints. That takes time, let yourself have it (time).

4. I've been playing since I was 6 and I still can't fret a clean F bar chord in the 1st fret 100% of the time even with a performance degree and teaching 50+ students a week (when I teaching full time) how to fret bar chords. 2/3rds is great. 5/6ths is good enough to be a jobber and most of 100% 6/6, slight half buzz on one string for an instant then it settles in that's where it's sits for everybody.
__________________
Todd Lunneborg
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-10-2009, 01:52 AM
mikesae mikesae is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 26
Default

Everyone's a little bit different, here's how I got barres-

Practiced playing songs with lots of barres on an unplugged electric late at night. I found I got the muscle memory to perform the shapes without worrying to much about hand strength/technique. It sounds like a dog at first, but I gradually got better- it was a matter of weeks rather than months.
I liked Faith, We Belong Together, I will Survive learned from the helpful folks on youtube.
I soon "graduated" those songs to an acoustic; it was a few more weeks before they sounded relatively clean, but it was much better than when I started.

Hopefully you can take the great tips here and come up with your own method. Just don't give up! When you "get" it, you'll smile to yourself; it's a priceless moment.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:43 AM
lpa53 lpa53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flat Rock, NC
Posts: 1,697
Default

Reading the above response made me think of suggesting capoing at the second fret to see if that helps. If it does, especially with an F or Fm, then maybe it is a nut-slot depth problem. I've always had a harder time with barres at the first fret.
__________________
1967 Aria Classical
1974 Guild D50
2009 Kenny Hill New World Player Classical
2009 Hoffman SJ
2011 Hoffman SJ 12

https://paulashley.weebly.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulAshley
https://www.reverbnation.com/paulashley
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:54 AM
JeremyG JeremyG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Posts: 392
Thumbs up Good suggestion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesae View Post
Everyone's a little bit different, here's how I got barres-

Practiced playing songs with lots of barres on an unplugged electric late at night. I found I got the muscle memory to perform the shapes without worrying to much about hand strength/technique. It sounds like a dog at first, but I gradually got better- it was a matter of weeks rather than months.
I liked Faith, We Belong Together, I will Survive learned from the helpful folks on youtube.
I soon "graduated" those songs to an acoustic; it was a few more weeks before they sounded relatively clean, but it was much better than when I started.

Hopefully you can take the great tips here and come up with your own method. Just don't give up! When you "get" it, you'll smile to yourself; it's a priceless moment.
I have to say I feel this is an excellent bit of advice. It's the same reason I bought my electric last year before realizing that I'd forgo a bit of pain and get an accoustic just a month later. I figured I'd play that electric more initially (I did...for around 3 plus weeks...)

I'm just beginning to play some barre' chords now in a couple of songs that have them. That's how I've decided to bridge this trouble. I'll take them a bit at a time and learn them as needed. I find my tolerance for frustration is better dealt with this way.

Barre's, it's what had me giving the guitar up in the late 90's.

I'm "waaay" more matured now....

Good luck. Be patient and then -- be even more patient. (talking to myself as well as the forum!)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:24 AM
Lou777 Lou777 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlguitars View Post
Here's the deal with Bar Chords. Your 1st finger has nothing to do it.

90% of chording is your thumb and the tips of your other fingers.

1. Try this. Place a pencil on the edge of a table, so it's 2/3rds on 1/3rd off. Now pick up the pencil with your 1st finger and your thumb of your fretting hand but keep your 1st finger completely straight. You have to grab it behind the 1st knuckle right? With the largest portion of the pad of your thumb and with /or just behind the 1st knuckle of your 1st finger right? The strength of the grab comes from your thumb, not your 1st finger. You might feel the muscle in your finger flex or "grab" but odds are is because it's trying to stay straight not that it's adding any focused strength to the grab, it's addign pressure but not strength. The Chordal strength comes from your thumb.

2. Keep the thumb in the middle of your chord, try and make an A bar chord. Bar the 5th fret. Tip* of the 2nd finger (middle) on the G string (3rd string), 6th fret. Tip of the 3rd finger (ring) A string (5th string) 7th fret. Tip of the 4th finger (pinky) on the D string (4th string) 7th fret.

Fattest portion of the pad of your Thumb middle of the back of the neck, straight up and down right in the center of the 6th fret. Now there should be enough space between the bottom of the fretboard (the side without driver "position" dots) and your palm to fit an egg in. Fret the strings with your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th fingers and pull your bar up against the 5th fret with your thumb not your 1st finger. Like your picking up the pencil off the end of the table. Pull your bar toward your thumb. Like your making a fist with your fingers in chord shape. Pressure comes from your fretting fingers but the strength comes from your thumb.

*= Tip is the tip of your finger not the pad. That way there is .5" to .75" of bone behind your tip to push with your finger pressure. Solid resistance. If you use the pad of your fingers the only thing to help resist the string pressure is your finger nail. Try squeezing the tip of any finger and your thumb, do it hard to make it hurt. Solid and focused pressure, like a hammer right? Now try the same fingers but the pads. It's a wash and you can feel the skin pad slush from side to side, right? Give the bar support fingers a chance to help the bar and not touch any other strings like a hammer and not a slushy.

Hope that helps.
Hi Todd

Welcome to AGF. Thanks for taking the time to help me.
__________________
Ultrasound AG-30



The whole point of Christmas is Easter.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:25 AM
Lou777 Lou777 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 850
Default

Thanks again to everyone for all the help. AGF is a great place.
__________________
Ultrasound AG-30



The whole point of Christmas is Easter.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Malcolm Malcolm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Deep East Texas Piney Woods
Posts: 135
Default

Lou, from one old guy to another (I'm 74) some time our hands do not do the same stuff the younger guy/gals can. There is always something that can be done, we just have to adapt. Don't give up. As a last resort look up the CAGED chord system on Google. I'm not above using a modified A form, in fact use it quite a lot.

Do the best you can with what you have to work with. From your signature you may enjoy looking into the short cut capo. Used in Praise guitar quite a lot.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-10-2009, 09:59 AM
rattletrap rattletrap is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 3,523
Default

Nantes,

Welcome to the forum.

Everyone has given you great advice. All I have to add is Practice, practice, practice. Barre chords are difficult when you first start, but you'll get there, just keep workin on it.


Craig
__________________
Bourgeois Presentation Slope Dred "Tux" For Sale
Taylor 714 CE "Curly"

Taylor HR-14 Hot Rod NAMM Limited Edition "Hot Rod" (Aniversary Present from my Wife)



http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/b...letrap-photos/
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-16-2009, 12:24 AM
Hedron Hedron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Lou...
Three videos which may help, about a minute each. I built these for friends and students to help learn to form the barre correctly...

Basics of Barre chords - click

Where to put the pressure - click

Another view - click

Hope these help...

Very cool.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-17-2009, 09:18 AM
Lou777 Lou777 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 850
Default

Hey guys I just played my first decent F and repeated it a number of times . Only 8 days . I think the cord progression of the song helped A, E (with middle , ring, and pinky) to the F. I just thought give an update and thank you all again for your
help.
__________________
Ultrasound AG-30



The whole point of Christmas is Easter.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Nantes Nantes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3
Default

Great job! Hearing that gives the rest of us hope, I feel. I haven't really made any progress, except that I got my guitar action lowered. The guy at the shop said the factory set up was pretty good, but I figured that I should have it done anyway. Wasn't expensive. The strings are (barely) noticeably lower.

Now I can barre every string except the 3rd (bleh!) if I hold a "death grip", exerting all the force I can, on the guitar with my index straight and rigid, but I could kind of do that before. Still have gotten nowhere by rolling my finger or trying different hand and wrist positions and trying to relax the muscles that shouldn't be tense (forearm and even shoulder sometimes!).

I'm going to start trying to work out my left hand more. I've recently been doing "pinches" with one of those chip-bag clip (http://www.showyourlogo.com/househol...clip-small.jpg) which does seem to put the muscles between my thumb and index to work. My hope is that that death grip gets a little easier over time and that the G string will start sounding.

Thanks again for the help everyone! Its very much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-17-2009, 11:42 PM
Fingerstylist Fingerstylist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 826
Default

Nantes, it will get easier over time. I didn't think I was ever gonna get it and now I can do it without applying much pressure if that makes sense. I used to think I needed a death grip and have now gotten to the point where I apply just enough pressure to the thumb and fingertips like the gentleman above stated.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-18-2009, 06:00 AM
Lou777 Lou777 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantes View Post
Great job! Hearing that gives the rest of us hope, I feel. I haven't really made any progress, except that I got my guitar action lowered. The guy at the shop said the factory set up was pretty good, but I figured that I should have it done anyway. Wasn't expensive. The strings are (barely) noticeably lower.

Now I can barre every string except the 3rd (bleh!) if I hold a "death grip", exerting all the force I can, on the guitar with my index straight and rigid, but I could kind of do that before. Still have gotten nowhere by rolling my finger or trying different hand and wrist positions and trying to relax the muscles that shouldn't be tense (forearm and even shoulder sometimes!).
Hey Nantes

You just described my experience exactly. It just seemed to happen yesterday. I think Fingerstylist is right about not needing the death grip.
I was thinking about the song and was more relaxed about the bar cord. Who knows. I have beeen told to just do it even if it is not perfect. It will work itself out as you get used to having your hand in that weird position.
__________________
Ultrasound AG-30



The whole point of Christmas is Easter.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=