The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:45 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default Training yourself to play cleanly.

Tough when you've been playing blues and a "it doesn't matter" approach. Now getting back to playing other styles again the little noises are getting under my skin. I don't want to hear my hand on the back of the neck nor my fingers hitting the strings or the click of a string hitting a fret! Back to fingerstyle 101.....
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.

Last edited by TBman; 07-04-2017 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-03-2017, 06:05 AM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,368
Default

Quote:
I don't want to hear my hand on the back of the neck nor my fingers hitting the strings or the click of a string hitting a fret!
That's an excellent thing to practice.
I would call it "cleanly", as opposed to quietly. Actually, playing cleanly both softly and loudly is good practice.
Some styles are more forgiving than others though, you're right.
__________________
Best regards,
Andre

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
– Mark Twain

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-2017, 06:49 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Earth, mostly
Posts: 1,208
Default

I think you must be experiencing a temporary bout of extreme subjectivity. I jst went through your SoundCloud clips and your touch is just fine...and you can handle 3/4 time in fingerstyle!

Very nice. Keep it up. Don't worry.
__________________
Harmony Sovereign H-1203
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...T. Monk

Theory is the post mortem of Music.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-2017, 07:57 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,450
Default

This is a nice exercise in dynamic control of the right hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aCCdectVdE
The first 2 minutes is him explaining the chord shape (from a Villa-Lobos piece) and the classical RH fingering pattern specific to that tune - covering all 6 strings - but the main point (which you could apply to any p-i-m-a pattern on any chord) is demo'ed from 2:10. It's about being fully in control of the loudness of each individual finger.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:33 AM
amyFB amyFB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Lehigh Valley, Eastern PA
Posts: 4,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Tough when you've been playing blues and a "it doesn't matter" approach. Now getting back to playing other styles again the little noises are getting under my skin. I don't want to hear my hand on the back of the neck nor my fingers hitting the strings or the click of a string hitting a fret! Back to fingerstyle 101.....
I notice 'finger noise' much more with my new guitar. I suspect because there are less of the sustain-ey overtones to cover up the noise from my fingers.

So I'm in the same camp you are TBMan, trying to play more cleanly, although you're way farther ahead of me already, from what I've heard.

good luck to us both.
__________________
amyFb

Huss & Dalton CM
McKnight MacNaught
Breedlove Custom 000
Albert & Mueller S
Martin LXE
Voyage-Air VM04
Eastman AR605CE
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:46 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Thanks everyone for the kind comments, I guess we're our own worse critics. Just thinking, learning to play cleanly might be one of the reasons why beginners are taught to do scales from many guitar instructors..... Good place to start - found in the "keep it simple" folder of guitar playing.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-2017, 05:12 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Earth, mostly
Posts: 1,208
Default

Barry...

For me there's a fine but definite line or point between "releasing the sound from the box" when playing softly and coaxing the sound out and "pushing" the sound out by bringing more of the body into play.

It seems that the touch of the picking fingers doesn't come into play so much as how much forearm "meat" is behind it.

BTW, I'm using D'addario extra lights on my ladder braced Sovereign but swapping out the stock B and E strings for the next diameter up. I play quietly but the Sovereign is a real "singer" in that the general clarity associated with the roughly OOO body and "less is more" arrangements based on triads played against a bass line means that even at low volume the sound rings true and travels.

Which of your guitars is the friendliest when being played softly?
__________________
Harmony Sovereign H-1203
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...T. Monk

Theory is the post mortem of Music.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-2017, 06:29 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 213
Default

I have to play softly cus the little one is sleeping in the next room, so maybe this has helped with helping me avoid unwanted noise. I'm also focusing on achieving really good fluidity, which means leaving notes ringing for as long as possible, and not preemptively fretting an already vibrating string. These little details all add up to improve precision.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:37 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Barry...

For me there's a fine but definite line or point between "releasing the sound from the box" when playing softly and coaxing the sound out and "pushing" the sound out by bringing more of the body into play.

It seems that the touch of the picking fingers doesn't come into play so much as how much forearm "meat" is behind it.

BTW, I'm using D'addario extra lights on my ladder braced Sovereign but swapping out the stock B and E strings for the next diameter up. I play quietly but the Sovereign is a real "singer" in that the general clarity associated with the roughly OOO body and "less is more" arrangements based on triads played against a bass line means that even at low volume the sound rings true and travels.

Which of your guitars is the friendliest when being played softly?
I think my Martin may be the one, I'm going to experiment. Good point, thanks.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:38 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0cks View Post
I have to play softly cus the little one is sleeping in the next room, so maybe this has helped with helping me avoid unwanted noise. I'm also focusing on achieving really good fluidity, which means leaving notes ringing for as long as possible, and not preemptively fretting an already vibrating string. These little details all add up to improve precision.
Stuff to think about. Thanks.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-04-2017, 10:59 AM
Pitar Pitar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,129
Default

Yep, but that's not my concern. Mine involves the non-contact use of dinner flatware; specifically forks. I can stand it when my teeth contact the fork. To me that's the epitome of poor etiquette and sometimes it truly puts me off my meal. Yessiree, I put my fork down next to my knife, rise up and then clear the table in a self-discipline state of mind wild horses couldn't drag from me. With guitar I'm so quiet and still behind it only the music gives away a guitar is being played. The instant one of my fingers make a wound string bark the guitar goes back in the case for a month. I will take none of that from me.

Busting back into reality, if a noisy noob plays Fire And Rain with a crap sounding guitar at an open mic while wearing his guts on his sleeve, I'll champion him till my ears bleed. I just don't care. That's at an open mic. Kick it up a level and I'll critique a seasoned player through my own set of filters. Going to the top echelon, I'd better be sitting there unconsciously slack-jawed in awe, possibly drooling.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-04-2017, 06:05 PM
Bern's Avatar
Bern Bern is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Thanks everyone for the kind comments, I guess we're our own worse critics...
I believe, that is one of a guitar player's hangups. The player wants perfection, but the listener, I think, doesn't perceive perfection the way the player does. A little string noise usually does not take away musical content. Loud heavy breathing...probably.
__________________
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major...
Sergei Prokofiev
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-05-2017, 06:22 AM
Toby Walker's Avatar
Toby Walker Toby Walker is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Stationary home in NJ. Mobile home on any given highway.
Posts: 9,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Tough when you've been playing blues and a "it doesn't matter" approach. Now getting back to playing other styles again the little noises are getting under my skin. I don't want to hear my hand on the back of the neck nor my fingers hitting the strings or the click of a string hitting a fret! Back to fingerstyle 101.....
Ouch. I do know where you're coming from, but "It doesn't matter approach" to playing blues? Well, ok. I suppose if you were talking about Big Joe Williams who tied stuff to the strings near his bridge for the added noise, but most of the blues players I know played pretty cleanly ---- when they wanted to.

There again, I'm pretty sure those Windham Hill artists might have cringed if they heard a squeak from their finger sliding up a string.

So, here's my approach to playing cleanly.... slow it down.... WAY down and then gradually pick up your speed to the point where you start noticing the ambient noise. It might be the way you're positioning your hand(s), attacking the strings, or any other number of things as you picked up the speed. Make the correction, slow down again and then take even more time to bring your speed up again, seeing if you start going back to those old habits. That should correct your problem.
__________________
Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons
https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/

Last edited by Toby Walker; 07-05-2017 at 06:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-05-2017, 07:08 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Earth, mostly
Posts: 1,208
Default

The Zone. That's where you want to be, where everything's in balance: touch, tuning, coffee/tea...whatever.

My subjective feeling is the good, clean touch required feels almost like walking on ice as I warm up for the day. There's a delicacy, a hyper-aware approach to waking up the hands, ears and instrument and as an old friend said, "achieving soundage".

When balance is attained there's a tangible sensation of a circle being closed: hands/ears, heart, breath and instrument. I proceed when a balance is struck.

I have what I call my "coat-hook" tune, the one I always play first when I pick up the guitar after making my coffee and doing my warm-up stretches. It's a familiar old friend of a piece and warms/opens me up for whatever Music and the day have in store for me. I have a deal with Music and the instrument: I won't tell you what "should" be. I'll accept what is and what will be. Play me.

But I think that the primary factor is the "user friendliness" of my instruments. I've had many through the years, but the friendliest, the most open, warm, balanced one has always been a Harmony Sovereign H-1203. Touch is a two-way street, the hands on the guitar and the guitar back to the heart through the fingers.

When it's clean it's alive : when it's alive it's clean.

Balance.
__________________
Harmony Sovereign H-1203
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...T. Monk

Theory is the post mortem of Music.

Last edited by Wyllys; 07-05-2017 at 10:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-05-2017, 10:28 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Thanks everyone.

Good ideas Toby. The "it doesn't matter approach" to blues was my mindset, not a reflection of your instructional videos.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=