K&K vs JJB

[kerrinsdad]

Originally Posted by chitz

I buy the JJB's direct from Jesse @ JJB $49.99 shipped
Be sure to specify 15 or 20mm piezos.

I buy the K&Ks from Either Maurys Music or Shoreline $86.10

Thank you!
My question to Jessie was about whether either of the guitars ( a cedar/walnut OM and a D18) I'm considering new pickups for would see a benefit from one size or the other.

[kerrinsdad]

A followup for anyone interested


"Hello. The baggs isn't ideal due to the 10meg input impedance, but I have heard several people using them and being very happy with the results. These like to see a lower input impedance as they are rated at 1meg, like the k&k pickups are.

As far as piezo size, I would venture to say that you would want 15mm for both. They are ideal for resonant guitars with fair to good bass response. The 20mm size are good in less resonant guitars since they are more sensitive, but they are rather boomy in guitars that have decent bass response.

Hope I was able to help,
Jessie J Vallad"

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi steve...
Sorry - I had my Bose L and T mixed up.

I'd contend your T1 is in the same category (on steroids) as many preamplifiers, and suspect it would fill that gap quite nicely.

A question, if you were going to play a venue with an adequate existing PA, would your T1 accompany you as your preamp and the rest of your Bose rig stay behind? Looks to me like it would be an awesome preamp even without your L1.

Larry, TBH it wouldn't accompany me. So I guess - unless I did get an outboard pre - I would have to hope that the input impedance of the 'house' mixer was high. But then, input impedances of even 'standard' pieces of kit have got higher in recent years as a result of low noise circuitry making that possible (in the bad old day, old high impedance inputs were synonymous with the high noise they caused). Generally, as the 'master of ceremonies' at open mic nights and also at my own gigs, then I use my equipment, ie the Bose Tonematch etc. And by the way, I apologise for biting. I do get passionate about things, but those who know me also know that my bark is worse than my bite. And Larry, you are one the more knowledgeable and honourable people on here, your input is always valuable to me as it is to many others

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by steveyam

...I do get passionate about things, but those who know me also know that my bark is worse than my bite.

Hey Steve...

Thanks for the response. I don't know many musicians or other artistic types who aren't passionate people.

[Doug Young]

Larry, to your question about using the T1 as a preamp, many people do. Larry Pattis and Jenn Martin are two people on AGF alone who do exactly that. I'm tempted to use one myself, it's small, sounds great, and has an amazing feature set with programmable settings, all the effects you could want, lots of ins and outs, and can be mounted on your mic stand for easy access and adjustments. The only negative I can recall from when I used to use the full Bose system was that the screen was hard to read outdoors in the sunlight for those occasional day gigs.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Larry, to your question about using the T1 as a preamp, many people do. Larry Pattis and Jenn Martin are two people on AGF alone who do exactly that. I'm tempted to use one myself, it's small, sounds great, and has an amazing feature set with programmable settings, all the effects you could want, lots of ins and outs, and can be mounted on your mic stand for easy access and adjustments. The only negative I can recall from when I used to use the full Bose system was that the screen was hard to read outdoors in the sunlight for those occasional day gigs.

Thanks Doug…

For people with an L1 (or other model Bose) it seems like a natural choice to add to their Bose rig, and then a great outboard option if they are going to play through someone else's system…

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Thanks Doug…

For people with an L1 (or other model Bose) it seems like a natural choice to add to their Bose rig, and then a great outboard option if they are going to play through someone else's system…

The T1 is powered directly from Bose L1M2 systems when you hook it up to the power base with the appropriate digital lead. However you can easily use it in analogue mode with the optional power supply. In which case you can use it with any system as a powerful and versatile mini mixer.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by steveyam

The T1 is powered directly from Bose L1M2 systems when you hook it up to the power base with the appropriate digital lead. However you can easily use it in analogue mode with the optional power supply. In which case you can use it with any system as a powerful and versatile mini mixer.

Hi steve...
I looked it up the other day & checked it out more closely.

We have two friends who own L1 series Bose rigs, and both opted to not buy the T1, and to use other gear (mixers) to interface.

In one case they use a pair of the L1 towers and subs, and then they do put quite a bit through them (last time I saw them they were probably using 7-9 inputs in a small church setup).

He's using an Allen & Heath 14 channel mixer as the front end. I'm thinking in his case the T1 would be inadequate just on the sheer number of inputs required.

The other guy plays in a band where every member has their own Bose L1 tower. He might do better with one. He skipped it to save buck-a-roos.

I think it's a worthy and capable looking piece of gear…even if it is $500.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi steve...
I looked it up the other day & checked it out more closely.

We have two friends who own L1 series Bose rigs, and both opted to not buy the T1, and to use other gear (mixers) to interface.

In one case they use a pair of the L1 towers and subs, and then they do put quite a bit through them (last time I saw them they were probably using 7-9 inputs in a small church setup).

He's using an Allen & Heath 14 channel mixer as the front end. I'm thinking in his case the T1 would be inadequate just on the sheer number of inputs required.

The other guy plays in a band where every member has their own Bose L1 tower. He might do better with one. He skipped it to save buck-a-roos.

I think it's a worthy and capable looking piece of gear…even if it is $500.

Larry, exactly. Quite a few users of Bose L1 systems use other mixers purely due to the limited amount of inputs on the T1 - but not because of its ability or quality as a mixer per se. It's here where users and Bose can differ, in that Bose's raison d'etre for the L1 systems is as a personal amplification/sound system. Yes, they do 'sanction' a couple of players sharing one, but the basic design idea is for each muso to have their own system with their own dedicated T1, allowing them to input up to four mics or instruments - plenty for a single person. In truth and in practise, there does not appear to be a difficulty in using the L1 system for an 'acoustic' band - the only problem being the four inputs on the T1. There you go..

[billder99]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

[size=2]...One of these days when a student or friend will show up with a non-critical guitar they want to play occasionally through a PA. I will buy them a JJB 3-element pickup and have it installed as an experiment....

Hi Larry: You wrote the above response about 1-1/2 years a go, have you had the opportunity to test/compare JJB vs K&K?

I am considering an inexpensive guitar as a backup to my "sweetie", perhaps a Taylor GS Mini. If all things are equal I don't want to spend any more than necessary on a pickup. On the JJB website, they claim to use the exact same transducer as (the other guy... presumably K&K).

PS: I currently have K&K mini in one guitar, in large part due to your strong and repeated recommendation... I am happy with the K&K so the simple 3-sensor setup works for my ears.

[Howie22]

If they are the "same" as indicated, why do the two companies have such different installation instructions?

Personally, I've always gone with K&K. They offer the volume knob option (which I like), and they created the pickup system initially.

[SimplyLuo]

Originally Posted by Howie22

If they are the "same" as indicated, why do the two companies have such different installation instructions?

They don't... the method of installation is exactly the same. You superglue the three transducers to the bridge plate.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by billder99

...PS: I currently have K&K mini in one guitar, in large part due to your strong and repeated recommendation... I am happy with the K&K so the simple 3-sensor setup works for my ears.

Hi bill...

I did have an opportunity to hear K&K and JJB side by side (not in the same guitar but both in hand built, and properly installed).

I was at a gathering of guitarists who mostly had high end handbuilt or high end manufactured guitars…and didn't know it was a JJB when I heard it, but knew something was different than the K&Ks we'd been listening to (I run sound for lots of acoustic guitarists…I cannot help but notice how pickups sound).

I initially thought perhaps it was an undersaddle, or an old style K&K Western - which was a large sensor. It was muddier than the guitar it was in (by quite a bit) but the signal output was not as strong as we'd been listening to...and K&K are about the hottest passive SBT I've encountered. I'd played the guitar earlier in the day.

I wouldn't have known what it was, but the person playing said to me at the end of the song "That is a JJB, Larry…"

It was not offensive. It was not as natural as the K&K Mini (which were at this gathering in great abundance). And most players were not setting their own tone, just plugging it into the house Redeye Preamp/DI. I'll bet if we could have run it through a decent adjustable preamp (instead of the Redeye) it could have been tweaked to sound good too.

Additional info on the two systems...
K&K Pure mini are 12.5mm discs and the JJB are 20mm. JJB can be had in 15mm too. I think the original Pure Western were 18mm. Smaller sensors have always sounded better to me, and when it comes to passive bridge plate transducers, hotter output signal is better if you are not going to using an external preamp.

The tendency with the older K&K Pure Western pickups was that they were overly bassy, and muddy in the low end. That's why I initially wondered if it were an old Pure Western too...the guy playing was old enough & experimental enough to perhaps have one installed.

Actually the song was well enough played that I didn't dwell on it.

If asked, I'd still recommend the K&K Mini - especially if one is going to just plug straight in without a preamp.

[ld27]

I have purchased, installed and used both.
The installation process is the same.
It he first one I bought was a K&K mini. I ended up buying their preamp because I couldn't get a decent sound without it. With a preamp it sounded good.
Next I tried the JJB Prestige 330 in my D-55. Jessie made it with connectors that I could solder to. Vintage Jack because I didn't want to drill the endpin. It worked great with or without a preamp. I used the smaller 15mm for that guitar.
I went on to buy 4 more JJB's.
They just sound better to me, more balanced, more forgiving on install I think.
Jessie is great to deal with.

Len

[kcnbys]

I've used both, and used both of them with the K&K XLR Preamp. Neither I nor my sound tech hear any qualitative difference between the two. I, as well, have used the 15mm from Jessie. They both have sounded fantastic (I prefer each of them with a preamp). As a result, I now always go with the JJB Prestige 330 - a better bang for the buck! Jessie also provides SUPER customer service, which I have really appreciated.