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  #16  
Old 01-25-2017, 12:52 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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Mr Poole (in photo above) was definitely more excited than last couple years talking about the CA line... very nice to see/hear.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2017, 02:43 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Ted, I specifically mentioned "key models" not freezing the entire product line...
Yes, of course, but they have not added anything new to their "key" models.


Quote:
...Rainsong has been ignoring twelve strings for years, since they switched away from the N1 neck and discontinued their 12-er's with the N2 process. I could not afford a WS-3000 years ago, but I can now - and they are no longer on the market. It would be welcome news if they came back.
I can assure you that the folks at Rainsong have not been ignoring anything. They take consumer requests, and more importantly, dealer feedback very seriously. When the time is right, there will be a new, and improved Rainsong 12-string. In the meantime I will keep harassing Ashvin for you.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:18 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is online now
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I mean even the same stencil patterns!
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:53 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
....When the time is right, there will be a new, and improved Rainsong 12-string. In the meantime I will keep harassing Ashvin for you.
You da man, Ted!

It seems like the main complaint I've ever seen here was that the WS-3000 did not have a truss rod for relief adjustments. I'll assume that anything new - when it happens - will have TR's as part of the N2 neck. In the meantime I'll "suffer" along with my Taylor 354-LTD 12 string.
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  #20  
Old 01-26-2017, 12:39 AM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
My understanding is that although Alistair attended NAMM, Emerald did not have a booth. I could be wrong, but it could be that because their business model changed to direct to consumer, Emerald doesn't qualify under the premise of NAMM.
It's not a matter of qualifying… Kiesel/Carvin had a booth, and they sell under the direct model too. They come to the show to increase the buzz about their brand and pick up a few more pro endorsers.

I don't have any inside info about Emerald, but if I were in Alistair's shoes, I doubt that I could justify the huge expense of showing at NAMM when I already had as much business as I could handle.

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  #21  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:19 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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I really think the issue with a Rainsong 12 is probably lack of demand vs expense of a new neck? I just don't see 12s like you used to in the earlier "folk" era. Is there any "star" using one? I must admit I find myself staying mainly with my 6 strings cause it's always next to me and more versatile. Also the exactness of a 12 is imperative, the pull of 12 strings can really be difficult for the builder. I have send CA's and old Rainsongs with actions I would walk away from, given the need to have a 12 nearly perfectly setup to play it comfortably. The 12 side of my Emerald doubleneck happens to be perfect, with no truss rod, I told Allistair of my concerns and he delivered.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2017, 09:34 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Yes indeed, Doubleneck. Twelve string guitars are a sub-market. There is another thread about "how many steel strings sell versus classical guitars". I suspect that the total 12-er market, especially within the CF world, may be rather limited. I cannot think of anyone new and hot that uses a twelve string - just the old established acts like America, Gordon Lightfoot, Leo Kottke, Mellissa Etheridge, etc.

I really wanted that WS-3000 about a dozen years ago, but just could not afford a niche guitar of that expense at that time. So I settled for my Taylor at about half that price, which replaced my Seagull 12. And I get that a new neck mold is a major expense.
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2017, 10:55 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana View Post
It's not a matter of qualifying… Kiesel/Carvin had a booth, and they sell under the direct model too. They come to the show to increase the buzz about their brand and pick up a few more pro endorsers...
Is Carvin still in business?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
I really think the issue with a Rainsong 12 is probably lack of demand vs expense of a new neck? I just don't see 12s like you used to in the earlier "folk" era. Is there any "star" using one? I must admit I find myself staying mainly with my 6 strings cause it's always next to me and more versatile. Also the exactness of a 12 is imperative, the pull of 12 strings can really be difficult for the builder. I have send CA's and old Rainsongs with actions I would walk away from, given the need to have a 12 nearly perfectly setup to play it comfortably. The 12 side of my Emerald doubleneck happens to be perfect, with no truss rod, I told Allistair of my concerns and he delivered.
The Rainsong platform is a no brainer for a 12-string, and it's been well proven to be stable. Not sure about the Rainsong and CA you saw with high action, never heard of such a thing before, in fact in all the years of selling CF guitars, the only one that ever warped was an Emerald X10 that I had to return to Ireland. It developed a huge bulge behind the bridge making it unplayable.

Course here again Rainsong has a huge advantage. Given that the neck is a separate unit, it would not be that difficult to reset the neck for a better angle should it ever become necessary. With CA and Emerald, you got what you got, as the neck and back are one piece. But again, I have never seen any issues with CA or Rainsong 12-strings.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2017, 12:40 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
Is Carvin still in business?




The Rainsong platform is a no brainer for a 12-string, and it's been well proven to be stable. Not sure about the Rainsong and CA you saw with high action, never heard of such a thing before, in fact in all the years of selling CF guitars, the only one that ever warped was an Emerald X10 that I had to return to Ireland. It developed a huge bulge behind the bridge making it unplayable.

Course here again Rainsong has a huge advantage. Given that the neck is a separate unit, it would not be that difficult to reset the neck for a better angle should it ever become necessary. With CA and Emerald, you got what you got, as the neck and back are one piece. But again, I have never seen any issues with CA or Rainsong 12-strings.
Maybe not fair cause it's used but the second pic here sure shows me a high action?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rainsong-jm-...sAAOSw5cNYc-Rq

To me a 12 has to have very low action because the double strings excentuate the string tention for playability. An action I could tolerate for a 6 can be troubling for a 12. I told Allistair that and he gave me a 5/64 on the 12 with a small amount of relief. Could have been the luck of the draw? I played a used Rainsong 12 a couple years ago that wasn't 6/64 I think? Though it may have been able to be worked on to improve, that aspect. I have not had a CA 12 but I remember setup issues being discussed on the McNickol forum when they came out, and I saw a used one that looked pretty high so I stayed away, from that one.

Rainsong does have a excellent platform for a 12 no other carbon fiber I know could have a reset like they could. The other issue to me is that a 12 is very jangly, I am not sure the bell like tone of a Rainsong works as well with that? The ones I have heard were not that pleasing to my ear. But that is totally subjective and personal preference.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:09 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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"Carvin" was still on the shirts above the Kiesel logo at the Kiesel booth
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Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:18 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
Maybe not fair cause it's used but the second pic here sure shows me a high action?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rainsong-jm-...AAOSw5cNYc-Rq.
I can't tell much by those photos, but the standard setup on the Rainsong 12's was the same as their six string models. I have never heard of a Rainsong moving, or warping, I have sold a ton of new ones, as well as dozens of older ones over the years.

When Ashvin informed me he was dropping the 12-strings, I asked him how many necks he had left, which was around 20 I think. I quickly placed an order for as many necks he was willing to give me, and a few months later we had every variation offered by them at the time. WS, Dreadnought, and Jumbo, with standard, CO, and Black Ice tops. I played every guitar while trying to decide which one I would keep, and the setup was as identical as they could get on these. I play mostly finger style, and had no problem with any of them. I finally decided on a Black Ice dreadnought, but as it turned out, someone called for that combo so off it went. I did manage to snag a DR3100, and I love it!

BTW, the standard, and Black Ice top dreadnought were the ones that sounded, and felt the closest to my favorite wood 12-String, an 86' Gibson B45-12 Reissue, so that is why I chose between those two models. At the time I still had a CA Legacy 12-String in my stable, but the 1-3/4" nut was a bit cramped, so I let it go. Thinking back now, I should have kept it as well, but in truth, I can't see me needing it now that I have the Rainsong.
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:51 PM
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benderman57 benderman57 is offline
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I have personally owed 2 different WS3000's and now own an Emerald X20-12.

I'm not going to get on here and argue who makes a better 12 string as they are both very nice.

I will say that my X20-12 out of the box did play a little more easy overall. Might not just be an action issue as I feel the radius is different and plays into the playability as well as the neck profile is different.

I worked with my WS3000's saddle height and was able to get them to play easy with some work but the X20 seems to be a little more forgiving in this area at least to me it does. Being the Emerald has a truss rod I could tweak this a little bit too.

Whether it's a better sounding guitar?? Who knows and really who cares? That's why they are out there to try, Different strokes for different folks.

To my ear the X20-12 is a little richer in tone and may be because of the offset sound hole.

The Rainsong 12's when you can find them are fine guitars but I much prefer my Emerald as far as a 12 string carbon guitar goes.
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  #28  
Old 01-28-2017, 04:47 AM
SteelPastor SteelPastor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Res Ipsa View Post
"One such innovation would be fore Peavey to move into the electric guitar market."

Here here! If Peavy is listening, bring back the Blade!

Or a semi-hollowbody evolution of the Blade. I have one of the few Blades ever made and can attest that it was a great instrument, SS frets and all.

Bring on the BLADE!!!


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