NGD: Kostal OM (and why I chose it over two Somogyis)

[JJI]

it is my thread you mentioned on stressful commissions and I'm glad you've read it. Evidently I was a bit short sighted though as it appears that guitars on this level trying to find a home can play havoc in the buyer. Either way, wonderful problems to have...not problems...calling these choices a problem sounds awful. A wonderful thing to agonize over.
Do they both feel right in a given moment? Has one felt right more often than the other?

[vicov]

Good story Brett, keep it coming. Enjoy your Kostal.

Cheers
Vic

[bdm0509]

Listen to Your Spouse

If there's one thing I've learned over the years–in guitars, but also in life–it's that it's really dumb to not listen to your partner/spouse/etc. For me, this is particularly true; my wife is a trained vocalist, teaches voice lessons, etc. She's also familiar (distressingly so, she might say at times) with my tunes. She's heard many of them for years, and on multiple guitars.

So beyond just "Babe, I don't want a divorce, are you sure you're OK with my spending this much money on a guitar?" my wife gives me an "audience perspective" that I trust.

So I broke out my guitars and went to work.



Again, I started with the Collings. A baseline... heh. Poor thing didn't fare well again.

Then on to the Somogyi.

Wait, Stop, You Need Some More Context Here

So at this point, I'm firmly "rooting" for the Kostal. That would later be really important to me: that I had a favorite. I hadn't completely analyzed all the reasons yet, but I knew that I –wanted– her to like the Kostal best. I did know that I liked holding it, I thought it was by far the better looking guitar, and I really liked Jason. I hadn't self-analyzed more than that...

...but I would before this whole thing came to a decision-making point.

For now, just know that I was going to play the heck out of the Kostal because I –wanted– it to sound the best to my wife. I think I'd also decided that while it and the Somogyi sounded a bit different, I liked what the Kostal was offering up: power and guts. I knew I had to fight its setup more, and that there were passages that just "came out" of the Somogyi better. But I still felt like the Kostal and Somogyi were really close. That's what I expected to hear my wife say: "Oh those are really similar. Get whichever you like."

Or something along those lines.

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise

So I played a few Billy McLaughlin pieces first, both in DADEBA. I'd tune both guitars, then play the piece on one, and then the other. Same arrangement, same ornaments, everything I could do to play the tunes identically. These are slower pieces (recordings and videos to come later, not of this night but of playing them in general), lots of harmonics, several places where finer tuning up the neck matters, intonation, moving melodies in various registers, and in one, several harmonics at the 4th fret (always tricky).

Behind the box, the Somogyi was a little cleaner, mostly because I flubbed a few things due to the Kostal setup. One one piece, I preferred the bolder Kostal bass. On the other piece, I preferred the Somogyi SJ bass, as it got further out of the way.

My wife? She liked the Somogyi. She kept saying, "OK, so the Kostal sounds GREAT. But that Somogyi... I hear –everything–."

So I tuned up to DADGAD.

More A/B, different orderings. A hymn I have played for 10 years; an air with a capo; a really short version of "Amazing Grace" that is brutal because the melody moves (in sequential notes) across numerous strings, really highlighting timbre.

Again, the guitars behind the box sounded very similar to me. Again, my wife said she felt the fidelity of the Somogyi was better.

Hmm. Up to standard.

A Huttlinger arrangement of "And I Love Her" (which I personally enjoy as a piece but don't think is a particularly great representation of the Beatles tune), and then Juber's "Along the Way." Here, the Kostal shone more for me... Juber's pieces have more of a "single voice" thing and the forward bass of the Kostal was perfect.

My wife was less committal here, but said (I think as much out of continuity as anything), "Somogyi."

Wait, So Which Guitar Did You Get Here?

So if you've been reading along and paying attention –at all– you should be wondering here... "Why the heck did you get the Kostal? Weren't they more or less even for you and then your audience consistently liked the Somogyi?"

It's a fair question.

So a couple of things here:

1. While my wife is a trained musician, she's not a guitar player. So I suspect that –some– of what she was perceiving as clarity and fidelity was a result of my making a few mistakes here and there on the Kostal due to the setup not being as effortless as the Somogyi. Although she said, "I know you played it right on both," I know that's not true. I made a few more mistakes on the Kostal on almost every tune. So I'm not discounting her here, but I weighed that in.
2. While I really want the audience to hear everything, I found myself thinking, "Man! I really wanted her to like the Kostal better!" This stuck in my mind as an important data point, and worth thinking more about later. I would do just that.
3. I really, really wanted to listen to these guitars as an audience. My wife was hearing something significant and consistent enough to be confident in her opinion, but it was not at all in line with what I was hearing as a player. I needed to hear from her perspective.

So what's going on here? I'm completely mystified at this point. It's one thing to hear my wife say, "I like such-and-such guitar better," but that's not what she was saying; she was saying, "The Somogyi is clearer/easier to hear things on." That's an important statement.

Equally important, though, is that I was forming an opinion about which guitar I –wanted– to "win," and that's also becoming important to me. I'm forming an emotional attachment, which is a GOOD THING (tm).

Next up? I get to listen...

[bdm0509]

While I'm at it...

This... my guitar... :-)

[SJ VanSandt]

Next installment, please! At this point I want you to get the Kostal too - I'm rooting for it!

Gorgeous photo of the back.

[Marcus Wong]

Just give up guitar playing and start writing a suspense novel already!!

[usb_chord]

[FormerFoodie]

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread!!!! Keep it coming...

[dcn]

Originally Posted by FormerFoodie

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread!!!! Keep it coming...

Same here, an interestingly detailed decision making process.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by dcn

Same here, an interestingly detailed decision making process.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is about as "in-depth" a decision making process as one could ask for. Its great to hear about all the little nuances that can be taken into consideration when spending that kind of money on some of the best guitars the world has to offer. And when you are able to have three instruments in your home to audition at the same time you can really be sure, in the end, that the best decision was made for your particular needs.

Keep it coming!

[bdm0509]

I wanted to try and take a short break from the narrative and talk specifically about the tone of these guitars. Jumping slightly ahead, I was also able to audition a Mod D from Ervin Somogyi in Brazilian and European Spruce (details to follow in the narrative), so there are 3 guitars that I'm using to make the generalities here.

To my ear, the Somogyi SJ is/has:

• A deep, somewhat cavernous bass that is somewhat airy. It has a –touch– of diffusion as compared to the other two guitars here. The bass moves more out of the way of the mids and trebles than on amost any other guitar I've played. It's a hair softer, less "forward" and "direct," a hair less projected forward. However, it's still very very solid, fundamental, and focused.
• A very loose feeling, despite being at the longer end of the scale range for Somogyi. (This guitar has a 25.25" scale.) This looseness seems to come out in the tone a bit; the tone itself has a slightly more relaxed air, and begs for a glass of wine to be nearby.
• Trebles that are thick and solid. The trebles here do clearly come from a steel-string guitar. They're not as round as, say, a nylong-string guitar. They have a little more bite to them, and having recently played that Franklin (although not in an A/B fashion, so memory is in play here), I think the Somogyi is a little more metallic than the Franklin, which was INCREDIBLY round and full. I liked these trebles, but they were guitar trebles, not "nearly sounded like an alto voice!"
• Mids that weren't dialed back, that were rich, and that could carry a melody every bit as easily as the trebles. This isn't as easy to do as I thought many years ago, and is highly valued. I didn't feel like moving through the mids caused the melody to ever get lost or diminish. Very pleasant.
• HUGE body. Like borderline uncomfortable, and I'm 6" tall and have played dreadnoughts for plenty of my life. I'm used to big guitars, but the lower bout on this was massive. I wished for a bevel or a wedge or something to reduce that feeling... although I'm sure the cavity had much to do with the sound.

Now, the Somogyi Mod D, in Brazilian, using the same points as above for comparison and organization:

• A very direct, very powerful, huge bass. This was NOT the same bass as the SJ, despite them both being Somogyis and both being powerful. Where the SJ had a little airiness, this had attack. The attack was fast and strong and the bass jumped out of the guitar. It would take a controlled hand to keep it controlled and where it should be, but it's nice to be able to let that lion out of the cage here and there. As such, this bass was in the mix with the trebles and mids; it didn't clear out of the way as much as the SJ did to my ear.
• A similar loose feel as the Somogyi SJ in setup, but a tad less in tone. The tone was still sweeter than the Kostal, and in this case, I attribute that to age more than construction or something distinctively "Somogyi."
• Very similar trebles as to above. Clear, solid, pleasant, still on the steely side of super round vs. steely-round. Still better trebles than most guitars I've played (the Franklin and my old Traugott are the only two guitars that I'd say compete here).
• The –exact– same mids as the SJ. This clearly WAS an aspect of construction and technique.
• Boy, the Mod D did not at all feel too big, not like the SJ (at least, this particular SJ). Years of dread-playing helped here, I'm sure. The Mod D was also heavier than the SJ. It felt similar in heft to the Kostal.

And now, the Kostal OMC:

• Another guitar with a very direct, very powerful, huge bass. I really thought that the Kostal bass and the Somogyi bass were fairly different when I just had the SJ. However, having the Mod D was tremendously helpful here. The Mod D had exactly the same "type" of bass as the Kostal to my ear: a lion ready to roar. The Mod D had a touch more, although the OMC felt a little more powerful. In other words, the OMC in terms of relative size to projection made me feel like the bass was stronger, probably because less overall sound was coming out of the OMC than the Mod D, so the bass really roared when I wanted it to. The Mod D produced more sound OVERALL so even with a stronger bass, the overall perception wasn't quite as much that the bass roared as that the entire GUITAR roared.
• The Kostal feels tight. Not just from a setup perspective, but from a tension perspective (it feels like the longest tension of the three, although it's the shortest at 25"). It also feels very new. I imagine just changing the strings 5 or 10 times, plus playing the heck out of it, will loosen that some. As Jason said, "That thing barely knows what it is yet."
• The trebles on the Kostal are, to me, less sweet than the Somogyi. They're a little more aggressive, a little less round. Again, it's hard to know how different these are at a long-term level because I'm sitting here (or was sitting here) with two decade old guitars and one nearly new one. (Those ages are in terms of playing time, as well, not just time-from-first-stringing.)
• The Kostal mids are really nice. Complex and rich and beautiful. If they sweeten, I'm going to be even happier. I think I'd put them up against the Somogyi mids right now. They're that pleasing to me.
• The OMC is a dream to play. It's surprising, because it's heavy (as heavy as the Somogyi Mod D), so when I first pick it up, I'm always somewhat expecting it to be heavy in my lap. But it's not... man it sits perfectly.
• I posted on the wedge earlier, but I wouldn't personally order one on an OMC. It's not needed. That said, I can't imagine MORE air volume pumping through this thing, because I really do think the bass on this thing competes with the Somogyi Mod D. But it's subtle, I NEVER notice it, and I'd do it for sure on a larger guitar.

There you go... until the narrative continues...

-Brett

[bdm0509]

Trying hard to improve my Friday.

[iim7V7IM7]

Typically, with a wedge, the internal body volume is comparable to a non-wedge guitar. The depth is the same at the guitar's center line; shallower on the treble side and it is deeper on the bass side. Does Jason not implement his wedge in this fashion?

[bdm0509]

A couple of people have contacted me and said, in so many words, "Why did you keep the Kostal if it's so hard to play? Who cares how it sounds if you can't play it?"

I wanted to speak to this now, rather than wait until further in my little narrative here. But I've got to tell you a (different) story first.

A Car-Buying Tale of Perfection and Perfect-er Perfection

A few years ago, I was commenting (really, griping and whining) about a bunch of driving I'd been doing between Dallas and Austin. I was driving back and forth at least every three weeks, and making the trip in a day–something like 7 hours round trip. Not awful, and I'm not claiming it was some undue burden; but I'm not someone who loves to drive.

I was griping about it, though, because I hated my car. It was a Honda CRV, and there was NOTHING wrong with it. I just wanted something... more comfortable. The CRV worked, it was paid off, etc. Still, though... and then the owner of my company, having recently made me a principal, suggested as a recognition of my new position, the company provide me a stipend (a healthier one than I probably deserved), and I use that to get a nice car.

Now, I've never owned a nice car. I've had a few nice trucks, some not great cars, and that CRV. Just good solid cars. So I was kinda excited.

Eventually, I ended up driving a BMW 328i, and I was stunned. It was AMAZING (all in capital letters). I had SO much fun. It was EASILY the best car I'd ever driven (for my tastes), and I could have lived with it forever. But then, the slick, smart, carrion-feeding (not really) salesman had me drive a 435i. Same body, not much different other than 2-doors instead of 4... but the engine was bigger. And OH MY GOSH IT WAS EVEN MORE AMAZING.

(OK, that's a lot of capitals, but it expresses my astonishment.)

In a matter of 30 minutes, I'd gone from thinking this one car–the 328i–was the best car I'd ever driven, to thinking, "Oh this thing is NOTHING compared to that 435i!"

Absurd, right? But do you see what I'm getting at? I would never have known that the 328 wasn't true perfection if I hadn't found out that the 435 was just a TINY bit better... and I was hooked.

So now, back to that Kostal...

A Guitar-Buying Tale of Perfection and Perfect-er Perfection

The Kostal guitar, as I received it, played as well as the Kraut that showed up on my door a month or so before... maybe a –hair– better because of feel, rather than action. For my personal tastes, it just felt right in my hands. If I had received no other guitars two days ago, this whole narrative would have nothing negative about the Kostal setup. It would be love and adoration. You know... it would have been the BMW 328i experience.

But then the Somogyi SJ was RIDICULOUS. It changed my expectation for what a setup could be. It was my 435i. It took what a few minutes ago was "stellar" and made it "still stellar but not AS stellar."

Are you following me?

So when people say, "Oh no, how could you keep this guitar that you can barely play?" I sort of chuckle. This guitar is a –delight– to play. In all my time with it today (mostly snuck in between meetings, or maybe JUST MAYBE while I was on mute on some conference calls), I've hit nearly every move, every weird stretch.

But to represent the difference in setup between two guitars (and then three) in this narrative, I have to paint the Kostal as not as good as the Somogyi to make my point. But we're talking such shades of degree... we're talking about two instruments and feels that are so much at the top of the heap... that it's sort of silly.

I went back and played the Collings again before I wrote this post. You know, the $4000 small boutique builder guitar, a guitar that most would say is built by one of the best small boutique builders in the world... a guitar that comes off, along with all Collings, ready to play and enjoy, and with a SHORT SCALE to boot... and it's just comical. That guitar, as good as it gets, makes me feel like I'm playing with three thumbs and my left big toe.

(And now people think, "Oh! That Collings plays terribly." But that's wrong too. It plays terribly COMPARED TO these incredibly high-end instruments!)

Finding Something Better is BETTER

Now here's the thing. If that Kostal shows up with no Somoyi, I never think to question the setup. I just enjoy the heck out of the guitar. I play it to death. But because I have this Somogyi, I have the luxury of asking for EVEN MORE. I want complete perfection. It's ridiculous, and fun, and crazy... but now I've sampled this other setup that again fits my particular style perfectly... and I want it.

I don't think finding an instrument (or anything else) that is better in some ways that you prefer than what you have is a bad thing. I also don't think it means you sell what you have and move on. It means you have a more informed opinion! And when you own a Kostal guitar, it means something else on top of all that...

Kostal Guitars are Made By Jason Kostal

I know that statement seems silly, right? Of course they are. But there's a real person on the other end of the phone that rings at Kostal Guitars. He builds these things, and he stands behind them. He's also, in my opinion, a guy that responds incredibly well to constructive criticism.

Now, I'm skipping ahead, but I have to in order to finish this part of my little interlude. I'll cut out the rest, but this part is salient: I called Jason and conveyed my setup epiphanies with the Somogyi. I explained that while I liked his setup, I had found a new standard of setup perfection. (Heh!)

He said he wasn't at all surprised that I preferred the Somogyi setup. As he explained, the setup on my OMC was a "stock" Kostal setup. Now, I don't mean stock for all his guitars; many of his guitars go to specific players, who live in specific climates, and have specific preferences. Jason knows all these things; so Steve in England gets a guitar tuned to his preferences and his climate, right out of the gate, and that's different than the guitar tuned for Vic or Eric or Michael. (Huh. Lots of Brits with Kostals, I just noticed.)

But this guitar was built for a dealer. That means that Jason has to provide the best setup he can, but in a way that will not fret out for harsh unforgiving climates. That means, by necessity, a bit higher action; a bit more conservative setup. But this is all within the "world of the BMW 328," remember?

So that alone was instructive; if I had ordered this guitar from Jason, it would have come much closer to what I like, because Jason would have known what I liked. It would have gone from the 328 to the 435 right out of the gate.

And Then... There's More

So all this gave me some understanding into why the setup on Jason's guitar was great, but not perfectly dialed in for my tastes. But it doesn't explain how it gets to perfection...

It turns out that Jason has a policy. You take his guitar to your trusted luthier, and the luthier sets it up for you. Then he calls Jason... who pays for the setup on the spot. Or, she consults with Jason from the start to make sure things are right.

Or you send Jason the guitar and he sets it up himself to your preferences. You could, supposing you had the perfectly setup guitar in front of you, take measurements. You could take photos AND measurements. And Jason sets the guitar up... and sends it back to you. No charge (although you do have to ship the thing to him).

Or... he invites you to come visit (an open invitation to his clients, as I understand it). You bring your guitar, and before your eyes, he turns it into the perfect playing guitar you are dreaming of.

And I'm not talking about just shaving a saddle here. He adjusts the saddle. He adjusts the nut. He makes sure everything is spic and span. He rounds the edges of the nut. He does whatever he needs to do to give you a great playing guitar.

That's how, in just one isolated case, I was reminded that I don't just have a Kostal guitar now... I have Jason Kostal on my side. THAT, my friends, is why I kept a guitar that doesn't YET play as well as the Somogyi... but soon will.

[Billy Boy]

GREAT (more caps) narrative, Brett! I will out myself as one of those who wrote to Brett through the PM backdoor. Brett and I have communicated on occasion through the years, and I wanted to ask him about some of his posts and explanations. His response was well thought out and clearly stated.

I think Brett has written an excellent narrative here, and he clearly indicates his needs and expectations and compares the guitars he A/B'd to those expectations. And, yes, it's not only a Kostal guitar, but it's Jason as well. Thanks, Brett, for giving us an excellent read about your road to your Kostal guitar!

Here's looking forward to hearing about a lifelong journey with your Kostal, and I look forward to your posting some audio clips. We need to hear this lovely guitar in your talented hands!