BodyRez Feedback Suppression?

[guitaniac]

I'm curious as to whether phase reversal is the BodyRez's only means of (possibly) inhibiting feedback, or if some additional tools are being applied (like notching down or compressing overly strong frequencies).

Most specifically, I'm wondering if it does anything (beyond trying a phase reversal) to correct an overly boomy pickup signal. Some of what I've read (about the BodyRez effect removing some of the mids) tends to suggest that the BodyRez might even make a overly boomy signal worse.

[Johnny.guitar]

The Body Rez gets a lot of love here and I'm sure it works great for a lot of people.
I was not a fan however for this reason. It really scoops the mids out...it creates a very warm tone but gets lost in any kind of a band setting as you really need the mids to "cut" through.
Playing solo this is much less of an issue but I found even playing with a percussionist the lows were fighting with the bass drum and highs with the cymbal.


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[martingitdave]

I agree with Johhny. The body rez sounds great, especially in a solo context. I a band setting, it does not effectively reduce feedback. In a band setting it can increase feedback by extending the low end. Even though there is compression, the warm EQ will cause feedback at high volumes. I learned this the hard way. If you need to cut through the mix, you're better off with a different para EQ pedal. If you are playing solo, I don't think you can do better for $99.

[guitaniac]

Much thanks for the thoughtful replies.

If one is looking to use the BodyRez in a high volume setting, perhaps it would be best to use it with a mag with adjustable pole pieces (as in the Guitar World demo) or with something like the onboard Takamine system (which is fairly feedback resistant to begin with, and offers some onboard control of the lows and mids).

I presume that adjusting the EQ is only one of multiple things which the BodyRez is doing, otherwise it would possible to get the same effect with a good EQ device.

[Johnny.guitar]

Eq & compression I would imagine.
I think it's a great device for solo performers. But once more instruments are introduced it becomes more of a problem than a solution. Adding more volume to try to overtake other instruments will only create a volume war.....and then the whole thing turns into a mess!!
Better to cut the lows & highs a bit and use those upper mids that may not sound as nice on their own but in a band setting it works. Everyone has their little spot on the eq line and can hear themselves


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[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Much thanks for the thoughtful replies.



If one is looking to use the BodyRez in a high volume setting, perhaps it would be best to use it with a mag with adjustable pole pieces (as in the Guitar World demo) or with something like the onboard Takamine system (which is fairly feedback resistant to begin with, and offers some onboard control of the lows and mids).



I presume that adjusting the EQ is only one of multiple things which the BodyRez is doing, otherwise it would possible to get the same effect with a good EQ device.

Correct, the body res is a filter, compressor, and para EQ. They take the guess work out by isolating and killing all the frequencies and artifacts that cause quack. Then, they further enhance/artificially boost those frequencies that sound like a guitar. Lastly, they put a fair amount of compression on the signal to keep it under control. At modest volumes, it sounds excellent. At high volumes (I recently tested with a 30,000 watt stage system at a notable venue) it howls like a wolf in heat. Technically, changing phase 180 degrees should eliminate a lot of feedback. But, I found with this pedal, you'll need other feedback suppression at high volume.

[Davis Webb]

For most of us who use small PAs in small venues, its a godsend. It makes your guitar sound like a guitar.

I have been mic'd with $10G mics and studios with my regular guitar and none sound as good as the body rez. Certainly not a ton better.

Those of us who plug in and find the guitar dies find it is back to life with the body rez.

It does ALOT more than an EQ. It restores the natural sound of the instrument to the PA.

[Johnny.guitar]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

For most of us who use small PAs in small venues, its a godsend. It makes your guitar sound like a guitar.



I have been mic'd with $10G mics and studios with my regular guitar and none sound as good as the body rez. Certainly not a ton better.



Those of us who plug in and find the guitar dies find it is back to life with the body rez.



It does ALOT more than an EQ. It restores the natural sound of the instrument to the PA.

Agreed.
And that is where it shines.
Small PA solo performance it works very well


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[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by Johnny.guitar

Agreed.
And that is where it shines.
Small PA solo performance it works very well


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Yeh, I can see how in a bigger venue that bottom end could really boom...

[lkingston]

Just want to mention that several competing box include notch filters for feedback suppression, including the Fishman Aura, the Boss AD-2 and the Boss VE-8.


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[guitaniac]

Thanks again for the helpful observations and advice.

I was thinking of possibly recommending the BodyRez to a friend who has a Tak dread and two other UST-equipped guitars which are much muddier sounding and less feedback resistant than the Tak. I've already suggested that he have the two muddy and poorly balanced USTs checked (for a saddle that's binding in the slot and not putting an even pressure on the transducer, or a saddle bottom which isn't flat and isn't putting an even pressure on the transducer).

I remember Harvey Reid once telling me that the Fishman Aura system, used with a custom sound image, could actually compensate for a poorly balanced pickup. I thought maybe the BodyRez might do something similar, but I can deduce from the observations here that just the opposite is true. The BodyRez would probably help my friend's Tak sound better amplified, but it would likely make the poorly amplifying guitar's even more of a problem.

[lkingston]

The Boss AD-2 body resonance sounds really good and it also has a notch filter, reverb, balanced audio out (via TRS jack) and can run on batteries. It's a better option than the TC BodyRez pedal. If you also want to add a vocal channel, a looper and a harmonized, the Boss VE-8 is an option.


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[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Thanks again for the helpful observations and advice.

I was thinking of possibly recommending the BodyRez to a friend who has a Tak dread and two other UST-equipped guitars which are much muddier sounding and less feedback resistant than the Tak. I've already suggested that he have the two muddy and poorly balanced USTs checked (for a saddle that's binding in the slot and not putting an even pressure on the transducer, or a saddle bottom which isn't flat and isn't putting an even pressure on the transducer).

I remember Harvey Reid once telling me that the Fishman Aura system, used with a custom sound image, could actually compensate for a poorly balanced pickup. I thought maybe the BodyRez might do something similar, but I can deduce from the observations here that just the opposite is true. The BodyRez would probably help my friend's Tak sound better amplified, but it would likely make the poorly amplifying guitar's even more of a problem.

I disagree. The body rez will improve your sound in most situations. Its much better than the other systems mentioned here. I tried the Aura and other solutions, and frankly, they are nothing close to the body rez. Don't discount it until you have tried it.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

I disagree. The body rez will improve your sound in most situations. Its much better than the other systems mentioned here. I tried the Aura and other solutions, and frankly, they are nothing close to the body rez. Don't discount it until you have tried it.

Note that Harvey Reid (a multiple winner at Winfield and a beta tester for Fishman) was referring to the Aura system used in conjunction with a custom sound image (a sound image created employing the same guitar/pickup rig that the Aura system and that sound image will ultimately be used with). A stock sound image (created using the same, or similar model guitar and a well-balanced UST) won't compensate for a poorly balanced UST.

Considering that getting custom Fishman sound images is an expensive and time-consuming process, I suspect that the new ToneDexter box may be a better option, with respect to compensating for a poorly balanced pickup. The ToneDexter box enables the user to mic his/her own guitar while monitoring the guitar's pickup signal to create a custom "WaveMap". The WaveMap's job is to tell ToneDexter how to process that specific pickup signal to make it very similar to the mic signal. If the mic signal is well-balanced, the processed pickup signal should be well-balanced as well.