Acoustic archtop: volume difference between acoustic bronze and flat wound strings?

[backdrifter]

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Bourgeois acoustic archtop. I am completely enthralled with it, and have been enjoying a change of pace from my flat tops. It is currently strung with medium bronze strings. I'm not sure if they are phosphor or 80/20, and I don't know what brand. They do sound good, but I'm thinking about trying some Thomastik Jazz Swing series flat wounds for a bit more mellow, jazzy sound. My concern is volume. My guess would be that the flat wounds wouldn't be as loud as the acoustic bronze strings, but I have nothing to back that up, just a hunch. I would prefer not to lose any volume, and would welcome an increase in volume since I play it acoustically 99% of the time.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

[jimmy bookout]

I would recommend phosphor bronze strings on it, they will be richer than 80/20's and still show the voice of the guitar. Archtops, by there very nature, are going to brighter, louder, with less sustain, than flat tops, be careful trying to turn an archtop into a flat top by going "mellow". Flat wound strings are very dull sounding acoustically, most jazz players use them, but 9 out of 10 times, these archtops are being amplified with magnetic pickups and run though guitar amps, which show off more of the mid-range character of the guitar.

FWI, I use light (12-54) phosphor bronze strings on my Eastman Pagelli. The guitar sounds MUCH better acoustically with these strings than any nickel/stainless steel/etc strings. Plugged in, it is terrific, but you must have a magnetic pickup with adjustable pole pieces to make phosphor bronze strings work.

Jimmy

PS. Does the guitar have a magnetic pickup on it?

[backdrifter]

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for the input. I'll probably still try some flat wounds just to see for myself. I can live with the dull sound, but want to know about the volume differences. Part of the fun of an archtop, for me, is the amazing selection of strings. People can and have put just about any kind of strings on archtops.

The guitar does have a pickup, but it is a Fishman piezo type, so string selection won't affect my ability to play through an amp.

[Wade Hampton]

Hopefully Howard Emerson and some of the more experienced archtop players will chime in on this thread. I'm about as far away from an expert on archtop guitars as it's possible to be, but I did own a nice handmade pure acoustic archtop for a while and have played a bunch of really nice old ones (including one of Mother Maybelle Carter's original Gibson L-5's.) So I do have some background (just not deep background) with this fascinating style of instrument.

I mostly agree with Jimmy's post, but would just encourage you to try a wide variety of different string alloys and gauges on it until you hit upon the combination that gives you the sound, projection and playability that you want. Archtop guitars can be just as individualistic as any other acoustic instruments. So try the Thomastiks, try some of the more traditional jazzbo strings, get a real assortment and run through them fairly quickly so that you compare one set to the next while they're all still fresh and good-sounding. Without having the guitar right here in my music room to try for myself, I'd hesitate to recommend one alloy over another.

Anyway, congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of archtop guitars. Next you need to get a fedora to go with it, a double-breasted suit and maybe some spats for your shoes.....



A Bourgeois archtop guitar....

and the perfect accessory to go with it:



A Thompson Submachine with the drum magazine...

Have fun!


Wade Hampton ".45 ACP" Miller

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for the input. I'll probably still try some flat wounds just to see for myself. I can live with the dull sound, but want to know about the volume differences. Part of the fun of an archtop, for me, is the amazing selection of strings. People can and have put just about any kind of strings on archtops.

The guitar does have a pickup, but it is a Fishman piezo type, so string selection won't affect my ability to play through an amp.

I don't think you will lose much volume with flat wounds, it's more the tone that may or may not bother you. You are correct that there are a gazillion strings to try so have at it. One of my jazz playing friends uses (and likes a lot) D'Addario "Half Rounds" (he has a mid 50's Gibson L-7) which are exactly what the description says, a round string ground to be a half round. Half rounds are more lively than flats. I have not tried them on my Pagelli, but on my Comins, they sounded good, better than flats but not as good (to my ears) as phophor bronze.

I should point out that I am in no way a jazz guitarist, but rather, just an old fingerstyle player. I just love archtops, and enjoy them aurally and visually. Is that your Bourgois that Wade posted? Dana does really nice work, you don't see his archtops very often.

Jimmy

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

I. Is that your Bourgois that Wade posted? Dana does really nice work, you don't see his archtops very often.

Jimmy, I don't know whether that's his Bourgeois archtop or not - that's just an image of one that I found online.

I also couldn't tell you whether that's his Thompson submachine gun, either...


Wade Hampton "Both Are Out Of My Price Range" Miller

[backdrifter]

Thanks for the comments and comic relief, Wade!

Jimmy, I've appreciated your input as well. That is not my guitar, but the one below is. I've heard about the half rounds too, and they're on my list. Out of curiosity, what phosphor bronze strings do you use?

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Thanks for the comments and comic relief, Wade!

Jimmy, I've appreciated your input as well. That is not my guitar, but the one below is. I've heard about the half rounds too, and they're on my list. Out of curiosity, what phosphor bronze strings do you use?

Your guitar is beautiful, nice maple! I really like the pickguard detail also. I use Elixer Nano web Phospher Bronze lights (12-53). Since the post has archtop beauty shots, let throw my Eastman Pagelli in, just for the fun of it (the photos were taken when I got the guitar so it has nickel strings on it at that point).

Jimmy

[backdrifter]

Beautiful Eastman, Jimmy! The Pagelli is a very beautiful guitar, I've always really liked that design. I owned an Eastman AR904 for a few months, it too was a wonderful guitar. It played like absolute butter and had a great sound. I'm still not sure why I sold that one - certainly in a flurry of GAS for some other guitar that I wanted more at the time. I didn't have it long enough to experiment with different strings like I plan to this time.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Beautiful Eastman, Jimmy! The Pagelli is a very beautiful guitar, I've always really liked that design. I owned an Eastman AR904 for a few months, it too was a wonderful guitar. It played like absolute butter and had a great sound. I'm still not sure why I sold that one - certainly in a flurry of GAS for some other guitar that I wanted more at the time. I didn't have it long enough to experiment with different strings like I plan to this time.

Man, I love oval hole archtops! One of these days I am going to get one. Thanks for the nice words on the Pagelli. It is a very cool guitar although I understand some folks being a little put off with the look. The Pagellis (Claudio and Claudia) do neat designs on their guitars.

[backdrifter]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Man, I love oval hole archtops! One of these days I am going to get one. Thanks for the nice words on the Pagelli. It is a very cool guitar although I understand some folks being a little put off with the look. The Pagellis (Claudio and Claudia) do neat designs on their guitars.

I think the jazz world tends to be very traditional, and obviously the Pagelli design is very modern. I love it and think it is one of the best looking cutaways out there. The AR904 was nice for sure, I'm sure you would love one.

[brahmz118]

I've tried the Thomastik-Infeld flatwound Swing sets, as well as the D'Addario Chromes. I experienced a significant loss in acoustic volume. It's like putting a sock in a singer's mouth. They might sound somewhat robust immediately after restringing, but come back after a break and see what you think.

I enjoyed the lack of finger squeak, and I think the strings are somewhat appropriate if I'm in the mood for dark, quiet sounds. However I think nylon string guitars are even better for that kind of experience.

I like using my archtop for Freddie Green-style comping, and I prefer the chords to have some bite. I really like this kind of sound:

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lukenelson

After lots of experimentation (Thomastik Infeld Jazz, Spectrum, and Plectrum Strings, D'Addario Chromes and Flat Tops, SIT Silencers, etc.) I've come to the conclusion that PB roundwounds sound best on my archtop.

I have a custom Verri that I specifically ordered without electronics:

[backdrifter]

Thanks for the input, brahmz. I may very well determine that PB roundwounds are the best as well. I still want to do some experimenting first though.

That's a beautiful guitar you have there, thanks for sharing!