Ziricote Dred

[stuw]

I've started the Ziricote build. Back is glued up, and started the thickness sanding. This wood is heavier than anything I have used before.

I figure I'll thickness the back to .125 but the sides scare me.

I've read the stories on how easy this stuff breaks or cracks. Would .08 or less be recommended for the sides?

Thanks in advance
Stu





I know your laughing at the chalk lines, but my granddaughters sidewalk chalk was all I could find.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by stuw

I've started the Ziricote build. Back is glued up, and started the thickness sanding. This wood heavier than anything I have used before.

I figure I'll thickness the back to 1.25 but the sides scare me.

I've read the stories on how easy this stuff breaks or cracks. Would .8 or less be recommended for the sides?

Thanks in advance
Stu



I know your laughing at the chalk lines, but my granddaughters sidewalk chalk was all I could find.

1.25 what?? Do you mean 125 thousands of an inch?? Surely it isn't mm.

If you DO mean 125 thousands, that is pretty thick (over 3mm). I saw a guitar made with zebra wood that was too thick. Zebra wood tends to carry a strong warp. so if the back is TOO thick, the warp can be strong enough to crack the wood (which it did, in combination with humidity issues).

One reason guitars with "more exotic" woods cost more is due to the extra care required in working some of these woods.

I would think you should be safest between 2.2 and 2.4 mm, but wouldn't think thicker than this would be appropriate. Let's see what some of the others have to say on this one.

Also, kindly verify your "1.25" units.

[stuw]

Sorry I need to proof read better before posting.

That should be .125 or 1/8th inch.
Sides would be .08 or less if needed.

checking the conversion chart 2.2 mm is .0866. HCG your saying the back should be that thin also?

This wood is really starting to scare me. Looking forward to what others have to say as well.

Thanks

[Tom West]

Have never worked with Ziricote before but .125" is way TOO thick. In my mind .085" would be where I'd like to be with the back. Some folks like stiff back, some like interactive. That should put you somewhere in the middle. If your wood is heavy a little extra thickness on the back can make the guitar seem over weight.
Tom

[AcornHouse]

I haven't worked with Ziricote either, but I have used curly Moabi for a parlor and had some trouble with a crack opening up after I milled it too thin.
I agree that .125 is probably too thick, but I would just go to .100; I think .85 is too thin for comfort. It also will depend on how much finish sanding/scraping you anticipate doing. Do take that into account.

Keep us posted!

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by AcornHouse

I haven't worked with Ziricote either, but I have used curly Moabi for a parlor and had some trouble with a crack opening up after I milled it too thin.

How thin was too thin? And did the crack open because it was too thin, or was it due to humidity or other factors?

@ Original Poster: Some people have a natural feel for working with thin wood plates, and others takes longer to develop the feel. Experience is also an important ingredient. The wood you have is absolutely beautiful and it behooves you to build a nice guitar with it. But even without having seen your cuts of wood directly (which is needed for a full examination of the grain and potential weak points), I think much more than 2.5mm and you will be inviting trouble.

One reason Indian rosewood is so commonly used it due to its ease in workability - bending, sanding, planing, etc. It is also generally stable and doesn't often have weak potential crack points. Your ziricote back may be absolutely fine to bring down to 2.4 or 2.2 mm.

Both Romanillos and Somogyi stated a similar concept but phrased in different fashions - that guitars should be built a half-step shy of self-implosion. Point is, thin and fully vibrant is necessary for a full sound. There are two poles of thinking regarding backs: 1) thin to vibrate sympathetically, and 2) thick and similar to a Bose speaker cabinet (heavy, not moving, a good pivot for the top to vibrate from, without absorbing or stealing from the top's energy). Even for those who subscribe to the thick back line of thought, I still think 3mm is a bit of over-kill.

Still hoping to hear what some more of the long standing veterans of the forum think.

[KingCavalier]

Stu, you're making me jealous again. First that beautiful Koa and now the Ziricote... very nice!

I never worked with Ziricote either but for me sides= .080 and backs= .110
I shoot for a more reflective back.

SA

[stuw]

Thanks everyone once again for all your help.

I took the back down to .110 with the 60 grit, switched to the 80 then 120 and ended up at .100 (2.54 mm) Then went over the back with the card scraper and I'm now at 2.4 mm Like acorn said I'll be scraping and sanding some more so it will be getting thinner.

It still fills heavy to me, but it is very flexible now.
Now for the sides.

King, I'm getting the Koa back for a few days to put a pick guard on it, I'll try get you some pics of the finished product, and btw I would love to see your build, maybe you could email a different link?

[AcornHouse]

Originally Posted by HCG Canada

How thin was too thin? And did the crack open because it was too thin, or was it due to humidity or other factors?

This was a number of years ago, but I think it was less than .080 thick, and a grain following crack opened up during the first winter.

[Viking]

That's some great looking wood there Stuw.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by stuw

Thanks everyone once again for all your help.

I took the back down to .110 with the 60 grit, switched to the 80 then 120 and ended up at .100 (2.54 mm) Then went over the back with the card scraper and I'm now at 2.4 mm Like acorn said I'll be scraping and sanding some more so it will be getting thinner.

Sounds like you got it at a good point now. It is a dense wood, so even at this finished thickness you should notice some more weight than even Indian rosewood. You likely have zeroed in on a good thickness where you are if you feel comfortable with its flexibility.

[stuw]

Got a little bit done this weekend while I work up the nerve to bend the sides.

Glued the cut-offs from the back to make the rosette.



Tried my 1st attempt at head stock inlay.



Cut the back, made the rosette, and did the layout for the fret board.

[AcornHouse]

Nice!

[Viking]

Love that last picture. What kind of top are you going to use on this build?

[KingCavalier]

Oh yeah, now we're talking!

Looks great!

Scott