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  #16  
Old 12-23-2016, 07:24 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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Regarding the op's samples, on my monitors, I could hear a definite nice difference with the tape. It sounded a little richer. A little bit nicer. I'll have to keep this in mind.
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:15 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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I have a particular problem with anything that calls itself an emulator, hardware or software. My problem is that there is seldom a control group of the original whatever box against which to compare the new thing.

They may SAY they do that in the skunk works when making it, but I think it's mostly marketing hype.

e. g. There are no new U47s around to compare. What did they sound like new? Surely they now sound different than they used to. Which one are you "modeling", the new or the old.

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Ty Ford
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:17 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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Well even my lowly Sonar Tape Emulator changes the sound for the better, so it's all good.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:21 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Someone pointed out to me that the "with tape" version of my song has a little bit of a mid frequency honk. I didn't hear it until he pointed it out but it's there. It's easily fixed and I think it's still a good trade-off for the way it smooths out the high end.

I still haven't pulled the trigger on them yet. I've got a week to decide though I'm still leaning towards buying them.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:24 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Technically, any change from the original sound is distortion.

You may prefer it, or, like Kev said, you may think you prefer it......for a while.

"for the better" begs the question, "Why wasn't it recorded that way in the first place?"

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Ty
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:39 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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Well with tape emulation, you're probably making a digital recording and want to emulate that old fashioned tape sound, that you don't get with a digital recording. Yes you can go back and record with tape, but it's really expensive compared to digital recording. So the next best thing is to record digitally and add a tape emulation sound to your recording. Some people just simply don't have access to a quality tape machine, due to the high cost of them. Those 2" reels of tape get mighty expensive when you're making lot's of multiple takes of one song.
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:46 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Yes, I saw a hardware based analog tape emulator at AES in NYC, The Anamod.
$3k. From my review of the AES show....

ANA MOD
If your world is too digital, perhaps you need to return to your analog roots. AnaMod's ATS-1 analog tape simulator is a two channel box. You can see it here in the top slot of the rack with the light faceplate and dual analog meters. You can choose 7.5, 15 and 30 i.p.s.. The modes have the corresponding head bumps built in. There are four types of tape machine and four different tape formulations. You can add hiss in stereo. (how quaint.) There is also bias control and hi and low EQ. There is nothing digital in this unit.

The ATS-1 models up to four types of tape machine and up to four types of analog recording tape. Machine and tape formula changes are done by SIMM cards. The unit ships with Quantegy GP9 and Ampex 456.

Applications include tracking in front of A/D converters and mastering to achieve a more analog sound.

Pendulum Audio
Not far away was Greg Gualtieri's Pendulum Audio with racks of analog and tube-based gear. Shown here from top to bottom are:

The Class A OCL-2, Electro-Optical, Vacuum Tube Compressor Limiter.

The Class A ES-8 Remote Cutoff Tube Limiter.

The Class A 6386 Remote Cutoff Tube Limiter.

The PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Two-Channel Brickwall Peak limiter.


I'm 68 years old. I grew up working with vinyl and analog tape. I get nothing out of it now and haven't for some time. Sorry, I'm not after an old-fashioned sound with tape hiss, flutter, wow and other non-linearities. I just don't get the point.

courses and horses,

Ty Ford

Last edited by Ty Ford; 12-23-2016 at 10:52 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:59 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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I don't want tape hiss, wow and flutter either, those were all qualities of cheaper recording units. The more expensive recorders had a nice warm, rich, sound to them that is lacking with digital recording. The quality tape machines used to pick up a quality of sound that's just not there with digital. Much more realistic. Much more distinct. instruments and vocals sounded like they were in the same room as you. Not so much with digital recordings. Like I said, my cheap emulator brings some of that back.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2016, 05:50 AM
The dman The dman is offline
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I use them occasionally to add a bit a smoothness but I don't buy into the marketing hype of it making my tracks sound like they were recorded on a Studer or Ampex because it doesn't
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2016, 06:07 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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I don't know about that...I went to the Ampeg website and watched their video,,,,, their demo sounded pretty good to me. It added a real nice touch to the music. I believe their plugin costs around $199, my Sonar tape emulator plugin will have to do for now.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:39 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
I don't want tape hiss, wow and flutter either, those were all qualities of cheaper recording units. The more expensive recorders had a nice warm, rich, sound to them that is lacking with digital recording. The quality tape machines used to pick up a quality of sound that's just not there with digital. Much more realistic. Much more distinct. instruments and vocals sounded like they were in the same room as you. Not so much with digital recordings. Like I said, my cheap emulator brings some of that back.
You may prefer analog tape to digital, but your reasons above? I'll have to disagree with you. Hope that's OK.

I guess I have to ask what's wrong with the digital technology you've been using. Digital recording today can be quite nice. Good A/Ds make a noticeable difference. They will however reveal that most cheap condenser mics to sound raw and unappealing.

Ty Ford

Last edited by Ty Ford; 12-24-2016 at 08:49 AM.
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:44 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is online now
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Ya it's okay...however if you get a chance, play some old 78 records, you'll hear what I'm talking about.

I agree about digital recording, I love it, it's very user friendly and affordable. I get great sounding recordings, but there's always room to spruce them up a bit. My recordings using the Nuemann TLM 102 mics sound awesome to my ears. I'm using a Focusrite interface which sounds great to me. I wouldn't go back to analog recording for anything because of the high costs, maintenance, and all the fumbling around required.
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Last edited by Martin Maniac; 12-24-2016 at 08:56 AM.
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:17 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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This discussion about digital and analog or perhaps digital vs. analog, has been ongoing since at least the late 90's when digital began to get traction commercially, if not before. Complete with claims, counter claims and everything from academic style informative discussion to ridiculous heated debate and controversy .

For me while I find the discussion interesting, I find the debate and controversy aspect, pointless.
I think that there are some possible advantages sonically and logistically to each format. I think the vast variables involved in things like the quality of particular analog or digital equipment involved, render blanket pronouncements on the subject pretty meaningless.

Also when you stop and think about it, while there were and still are, entirely analog systems. There really is no entirely digital recording / playback system. With digital it is in reality, a hybrid analog digital system, to greater or lesser degrees.

In my system I use an outboard digital reverb and an outboard analog tube compressor and while I do prefer the sound of using both, to any of the plugins for those processes. I cannot honestly say it is anything more than personal preference . Do I personally think they sound "better" than the plug ins ? yes ...Does it really sound "better" I don't know, and honestly I really don't care, it is what I like.
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:26 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Ya it's okay...however if you get a chance, play some old 78 records, you'll hear what I'm talking about.

I agree about digital recording, I love it, it's very user friendly and affordable. I get great sounding recordings, but there's always room to spruce them up a bit. My recordings using the Nuemann TLM 102 mics sound awesome to my ears. I'm using a Focusrite interface which sounds great to me. I wouldn't go back to analog recording for anything because of the high costs, maintenance, and all the fumbling around required.
Granted. Some years ago, my parents asked me to come to dinner and explain why the 33 1/3 LPs didn't sound as good as their 78 rpms. We listened. I said:

1. 78rpm has over twice the play speed of a 33 1/3. Think about 7.5 its versus 15 ips.

2. The material of the 78 is harder, the 33 1/3 disk is vinyl and softer. More attack (perhaps).

3. The mixes were different. The 33 1/3 rpm recordings had more reverb, sounded less present.

4. (Maybe) The 78 rpm stylus and groove are about 10 times as big as the 33 rpm gear.

Regards,

Ty
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  #30  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:41 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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We're all trying to do the same thing: get from raw recorded tracks to a finished product that sounds good. There's no one path that gets us there. If someone has a fantastic mic locker, great pres, a superior A/D converter, and the knowledge & experience to get the most out of that gear, they'll get to the goal a lot easier than most. Anyone coming up short on some combination of hardware, knowledge, & experience may need to take a different route to get there. And along the way we'll learn, and years down the road we'll do things differently. In the meantime, if there's something affordable out there that helps me get closer to what I want, I'm going to take advantage even if some number of purists tell me it's not authentic. Appeasing the purists isn't my goal.

Emulations fall short of the actual hardware upon which they're based. That's not a secret. I haven't heard anyone saying those tape emulations make it sound just like it would if we'd run that sound through a Studer and an Ampex machine. I certainly haven't, but I have said I think the plugins make the song sound better. Better. I'd love to have a room full of the great and wonderful gear that plugin developers have tried to emulate. Budget wise, it's not realistic.
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